Does the Haiti earthquake prove that there is no god?

[denuseri]

I dont think it has any bearing whatsoever on the existence or lack there-of, but then again, I am a bit of a trancedental deist of sorts.

[Thorne]

Any of these natural events, whether earthquakes, forest fires, hurricanes, tornadoes or anything else, can neither prove or disprove the existence of anything other than themselves. Earthquakes exist. No question about it. Hurricanes happen. End of story. Did God send them? No reason to think so. If God wants to punish someone, all he has to do is induce a heart attack. Every natural disaster has a natural explanation.

On the other hand, it cannot prove that God does not exist. Nothing can prove that, at least not until we have gained all the possible knowledge in the universe. However, it does tend to indicate, at least to me, that this God doesn't give a rat's ass about people.

But maybe that's the Christian God. What about Allah? Does he care about people? Well,Indonesia is primarily Muslim, isn't it? That tsunami five years ago seemed to do a number on them. So I guess Allah doesn't care, either.

Maybe Allah and God are fighting one another! That would explain it. God smites Indonesia, so Allah stomps on Haiti. And good old Yahweh keeps sending those pillars of smoke (tornadoes) through the American Midwest, just for shits and giggles.

No, I'm afraid that all we can learn from Haiti is that, when you have shoddy building construction and an earthquake, buildings fall down. And they tend to fall down on people.

So let's contact that "Faith Comes By Hearing organization" and have them send another couple hundred of their solar-powered bibles. That's just what those starving, thirsty and homeless people need to get them through this.

[MMI]

Maybe Allah and God are fighting one another ... and good old Yahweh keeps sending those pillars of smoke ... just for shits and giggles.

Brilliantly put! Doesn't get rid of the idea of God, but shows how death and destruction can be wreaked by his followers.

Oh, by the way, as I'm sure you all realise, God, Allah, and Yahweh are all same deity. So God's followers kill God's followers in God's name.

But natural disasters cannot possibly prove God's non-existence - for we know God to be a cruel God, if he exists, and if he doesn't why bother to prove it?

[thir]

But natural disasters cannot possibly prove God's non-existence - for we know God to be a cruel God, if he exists, and if he doesn't why bother to prove it?

How do we know that? Most problems are man-made. But maybe you mean that God was cruel to create something as cruel as humans??

[Thorne]

How do we know that? Most problems are man-made. But maybe you mean that God was cruel to create something as cruel as humans??

I suggest you read the story of Job to see just how cruel God can be.

[thir]

I suggest you read the story of Job to see just how cruel God can be.

I have - I do like its humor and attitude!

[leo9]

I have - I do like its humor and attitude!

I think he probably meant the one in the Bible, not the one by Heinlein. Both depict an innocent mortal being screwed around by Them Upstairs, but in RAH's version it turns out that it's the Devil who is testing him - JHVH stopped bothering with such hands-on management long ago.

And he gets much gentler treatment than the biblical Job, who comes over like a total masochist - "Thank you for killing my family, Lord, may I have another?"

[Thorne]

I have - I do like its humor and attitude!

Heinlein's Job was humorous, I agree. The BIBLE's Job, not so much. And that is just one example of God's capriciousness and cruelty.

[thir]

I dont think it has any bearing whatsoever on the existence or lack there-of, but then again, I am a bit of a trancedental deist of sorts.

Do you mean a non-personal divinity?

[denuseri]

Do you mean a non-personal divinity?

Not exactly, yes and no I believe that this higher power that some of us refer to as the GOD can be all encompassing and that lesser entities can act as gods, but that all is inside all of us and part of every single living thing all at once.

I believe that it's conscienceness transends our own and ours it's. We are atomounous parts of the whole collective consciouness that is god, so as god has feel will so too do we. So as god is all powerful and defines good and evil for its self , so too do we. In this I think we are live individual cells of a great cosmic body.

The primaray difference too me is a matter of fractual mathematical scales of evolution and trancendental perspective.

I believe mankind is capable of developing noetic insights from time to time that led to a better understanding of things within the fractual patern of existance and that such individuals having no other recourse but "language" are limited in their ability to explain such things and that this is where religions and later philosophy and now science have come from.

Does god take a close personal intrest in me?

I hope so, but there is no way for me to know for certian until the final breath leaves my body.

I imagine from God's perspective it's much a kin to my own concerning the individual cells of my body.

I do not however believe that God visits worldy punnishments and or rewards upon us in the same way that some individual consciouness would such as a parent spanking a child; though I do know that the ancients once thought this way and felt very sure of the veritus of such.

[thir]

Not exactly, yes and no I believe that this higher power that some of us refer to as the GOD can be all encompassing and that lesser entities can act as gods, but that all is inside all of us and part of every single living thing all at once.

I believe that it's conscienceness transends our own and ours it's. We are atomounous parts of the whole collective consciouness that is god, so as god has feel will so too do we. So as god is all powerful and defines good and evil for its self , so too do we. In this I think we are live individual cells of a great cosmic body.

I can relate to this, it is very like many pagan faiths.

The primaray difference too me is a matter of fractual mathematical scales of evolution and trancendental perspective.

I believe mankind is capable of developing noetic insights from time to time that led to a better understanding of things within the fractual patern of existance and that such individuals having no other recourse but "language" are limited in their ability to explain such things and that this is where religions and later philosophy and now science have come from.

Yes, language is really quite insufficient to describe these things. I once read a definition of 'mystery' as 'that which cannot be put into words'.

Surely philosophy and science are attempts to understand our world, just as religion partly must have been. Re another discussion, I never could see that relilgion (has to) bar scientific research. It can, but it doesn't have to.

Does god take a close personal intrest in me?
I hope so, but there is no way for me to know for certian until the final breath leaves my body.
I imagine from God's perspective it's much a kin to my own concerning the individual cells of my body.[/COLOR][/I][/B]

Again, a very paganish thought which I can relate to. On a purely objective level, we are all made of the same material as each other and everything around us.

I do not however believe that God visits worldy punnishments and or rewards upon us in the same way that some individual consciouness would such as a parent spanking a child; though I do know that the ancients once thought this way and felt very sure of the veritus of such.

Me neither! It does not seem to have kept people on the straight and narrow either, if that is a place to be.
But many have a need to feel that bad behaviour is punished somehow, as the human justice is so lacking.