16 years old voters

[Thorne]

Again where I come from originally there is a debate whether the age to vote should be changed from 18 years as it is now, to 16.

Is that a good idea?

I doubt it. The average 16 year old is not generally interested in politics, or his fellow man. While some may be, most are more interested in the latest fashions, who's boinking who in school, and who's going to win on American Idol (or whichever version goes on in your country.)

When are you old enough to vote?

I think that varies. I think I would give the right to vote to anyone who's completed the first year of their enlistment in the military, but not draftee's. Anyone, including draftee's, who is honorably discharged from the military. Anyone who completes four years of college, or equivalent, at an accredited university. I don't think I would give anyone else the right to vote before age 25.

What is the definition of a good voter/citizen?

A good voter is someone who will vote for the person best qualified for the job, regardless of political affiliation or popularity.

A good citizen is someone who will work to help the elected officials do their jobs, regardless of whether he voted for them or not.

[SadisticNature]

I doubt it. The average 16 year old is not generally interested in politics, or his fellow man. While some may be, most are more interested in the latest fashions, who's boinking who in school, and who's going to win on American Idol (or whichever version goes on in your country.)


I think that varies. I think I would give the right to vote to anyone who's completed the first year of their enlistment in the military, but not draftee's. Anyone, including draftee's, who is honorably discharged from the military. Anyone who completes four years of college, or equivalent, at an accredited university. I don't think I would give anyone else the right to vote before age 25.


A good voter is someone who will vote for the person best qualified for the job, regardless of political affiliation or popularity.

A good citizen is someone who will work to help the elected officials do their jobs, regardless of whether he voted for them or not.

I think a good voter is almost non-existent then. I believe choices like Gore vs Bush, Kerry vs Bush, and Obama vs McCain have consistently reflected a choice of evils. I have a hard time believing that either of the two opposing candidates in any case was the best person to be president.

Bush and Obama both won largely on Charisma, and both have at times seemed overwhelmed by the job.

Furthermore, voting based on qualification suggests that the entire values voters movement is wrong.

As for the voting age over 30, as it is there are some incredibly ageist policies in place in the government and that would be likely exacerbated by increasing the voting age. Running up the national debt is something that punishes the youth of the nation. Similarly social programs related to retirement and old age operate on pay it forward pyramid schemes and the deductions made for them don't actually pay for the programs themselves. The people with the most incentive to fix this are in fact people under 30, who will be facing the raised fees to pay for these programs during their prime earning years. A large portion of the people over 40 are probably a lot more accepting of the idea of running up the national debt and taxing someone else down the road to pay for social programs they will use but aren't adequately funding. Or running up the debt to keep taxes low now while they are in the best earning years of their life, even if that means unfairly taxing people down the road.

[SadisticNature]

I doubt it. The average 16 year old is not generally interested in politics, or his fellow man. While some may be, most are more interested in the latest fashions, who's boinking who in school, and who's going to win on American Idol (or whichever version goes on in your country.)


I think that varies. I think I would give the right to vote to anyone who's completed the first year of their enlistment in the military, but not draftee's. Anyone, including draftee's, who is honorably discharged from the military. Anyone who completes four years of college, or equivalent, at an accredited university. I don't think I would give anyone else the right to vote before age 25.


A good voter is someone who will vote for the person best qualified for the job, regardless of political affiliation or popularity.

A good citizen is someone who will work to help the elected officials do their jobs, regardless of whether he voted for them or not.

This system of second class citizenry reminds me a lot of a certain Heinlein novel, which most people recognize by its rather weak but populist movie form.

It also reeks of selecting for outcomes. On what basis do you say that someone who volunteers to serve in the military (possibly with only a peacetime deployment or even a non-front role that doesn't give exposure to the actual situation on the ground) is somehow more qualified to vote than someone who instead:

(A) Volunteered in a homeless shelter and in so doing met several veterans who were driven insane by the war and left to their own devices. Someone who believes the government ought to do something about it.

(B) Someone who instead went to college and majored in US history, and thus learned about the events you describe as necessary to understanding the country in far more depth.

(C) Why 30? Why not 21? Why not 25? The answer based on your posts is either a small amount of anecdotal evidence, or a belief that Under 20's made the wrong choice in the last election and didn't elect your candidate.

Note that voters can't even agree on a question like: "What is the most important problem facing our nation today?"

And I think you'll find answers to questions like that change who the better of the two candidates were.

There are a sizable percentage of people who feel the middle class lifestyle has completely tanked, and that the American promise that hard-work will be rewarded is not available to them.

Many people feel much of the success of the middle class in America was based on unionized manufacturing, which ensured someone who was willing to work hard and get the job done would be guaranteed a wage that ensured a comfortable living. Unfortunately, unions of late have focused too much on job security and not enough on salary and benefits to the point where people feel union workers are lazy and hard to fire. Car companies that have been run into the ground by management for years are instead forcing massive pay-cuts through on unions then paying out management bonuses with government bailouts. Where did it all go so wrong?

In this day and age it is rare for someone to earn a middle class living on hard work and a high school diploma. Some people feel things like this are the biggest problem with America. They can't even agree on how to fix it, but what solution someone believes in could easily change the outcome of which of the two candidates was better.

[DuncanONeil]

Non Sequitor! Expressing serious bias as well!

This system of second class citizenry reminds me a lot of a certain Heinlein novel, which most people recognize by its rather weak but populist movie form.

It also reeks of selecting for outcomes. On what basis do you say that someone who volunteers to serve in the military (possibly with only a peacetime deployment or even a non-front role that doesn't give exposure to the actual situation on the ground) is somehow more qualified to vote than someone who instead:

(A) Volunteered in a homeless shelter and in so doing met several veterans who were driven insane by the war and left to their own devices. Someone who believes the government ought to do something about it.

(B) Someone who instead went to college and majored in US history, and thus learned about the events you describe as necessary to understanding the country in far more depth.

(C) Why 30? Why not 21? Why not 25? The answer based on your posts is either a small amount of anecdotal evidence, or a belief that Under 20's made the wrong choice in the last election and didn't elect your candidate.

Note that voters can't even agree on a question like: "What is the most important problem facing our nation today?"

And I think you'll find answers to questions like that change who the better of the two candidates were.

There are a sizable percentage of people who feel the middle class lifestyle has completely tanked, and that the American promise that hard-work will be rewarded is not available to them.

Many people feel much of the success of the middle class in America was based on unionized manufacturing, which ensured someone who was willing to work hard and get the job done would be guaranteed a wage that ensured a comfortable living. Unfortunately, unions of late have focused too much on job security and not enough on salary and benefits to the point where people feel union workers are lazy and hard to fire. Car companies that have been run into the ground by management for years are instead forcing massive pay-cuts through on unions then paying out management bonuses with government bailouts. Where did it all go so wrong?

In this day and age it is rare for someone to earn a middle class living on hard work and a high school diploma. Some people feel things like this are the biggest problem with America. They can't even agree on how to fix it, but what solution someone believes in could easily change the outcome of which of the two candidates was better.