Equality?

[Kendal]

The biggest problem that faces everyone is misconception. Unless you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, you will not understand their point of view.

That the middle classes bear the brunt of taxation I agree. That they are taxed too much I agree, But they all too often talk about how they "work hard:" as if others do not. I was pointing out they are not the only people who work hard and life down the mines is (as the recent accident shows) hard work also, Yes I was being sarcastic when I said easy life down the mines. Was it not obvious?

Part of the miscommunciation here is our difference of understnding what the classes are. In UK manual (blue collar) workers were/are lower class. The term is consider demeaning today so now they are called lower middle class. The middle class is the foreman, junior manager, shopkeeper. The upper middle is the professionals - senior managers, doctors, lawyers etc. The upper class would be the directors and (large)company owners. Clearly UK is different from USA because the person pushing cages would be lower(middle) and the saying where to push those cages (supervisor/manager) would be middle. To translate my gripe into your company it would be like the Logistics Manager saying he works hard as if the cage pusher does not. I would have thought you would agreeing with me.

But still they were rulers in their own rights, and the king relied upon their support for his own rule. Without the barons' money and troops the king could not rule. All the barons did was to improve their own lots in life, without much direct benefit to the commoners

In terms of rights (eg Magna Carta) the ruler (king) ruled over the barons (ruled) and did not freely give those rights and much as we have loved could could not take back the rights he had given. The fact that the barons ruled the serfs is another situtation and the baron did not freely give the serfs rights, they fought for them be it through rebellion or petioning the king. The fact remains rights are rarely given freely they are won through battle.

The American Civil War was never about freeing the slaves. It was about the rights of the states to rule themselves.

Yes I know. I did not want to turn my post into a history class and said that for simplicity. The fact still remains the rights were not given, they were fought for. In this case they lost and with that defeat lost the rights.

No, the principles aren't necessarily wrong, but don't automatically blame the pilot, either.

Correct. And the principles or calculations may be wrong. The question is then when it comes to heavy taxation is the problem the principle of taxing higher earners more one we disagree with or is it simply that because of government overspending and inefficiency the tax burder is too high. I do not see the middle classes complaining when America spends zillions to invade other countries but they do complain when money goes to the have nots. I maintain that it is possible to help the less well off and lower taxes on the middle class simply by by efficient, not wasteful and not looking soley to taxation for revenue. There are other ways governments can earn money not just income tax.

The government screwed up the banks by deregulating and not monitoring them. How much taxpayer money went to bail outs and how many companies went broke. How much has iraq and Afghanistan cost - and you still haven't caught Bin Ladin or stopped terrorism.. That mispent money could have been saved, put into health and your taxes would probably still be the same.

I agree the middle class is over taxed. My gripe is how they point the finger at poor man saying "why should I pay for him" rather than pointing the finger at the rich politician and asking why are you making such a balls up of everything. To my mind money for heal sick americans is more noble than money for into the pockets of the userers or to drop bombs on people in a far off land.