Quote Originally Posted by Ozme52 View Post
In general, consent is not enough. Abuse is abuse whether the recipient consents or not.
Well, yes, and no. What is abuse? People who do not like our lifestyle says it is abusive what we do, and a sub cannot consent to be whipped, for instance.

Afterall, the battered housewife who refuses to file charges and comes back to the abuser over and over again is indeed consenting to the abuse, and yes, that's abuse.
Coming back is certainly not consenting to abuse. There can be many reasons - fear, for oneself, or children. Fear that he will find you. Or abuse for years ends up making you unable to act. Please do not say that people who are battered domestically consent.

This seems to me to bear on the question of subs (men or women) who seem to consent to abuse, however we may define that term.

Both physical and mental mistreatment can qualify as abuse.
Absolutely!

I think, however, if the consenter is willing, it is never abuse.
But you said above that the battered housewife consented by coming back, but that domestic violence is abuse.

These things are very complicated, I think, though they kind of look obvious at a first glance - or do they?

How do you define "truly hurts his sub" (or her sub) if that sub feels completed by it? Is compelled to it? Relishes it?
That, as Shakespear said, is the question.
How do you?

Say a sub relishes having his bones broken, or being starved, or being beaten senseless. Is it ok, as long as the damage can be repaired? Or do we conclude that there is something wrong with this sub? Many subs relish being treated like dirt - for long periods of time, or always. Is that ok?

Now we can argue what it means to be "willing". But I think it is important in defining WIITWD.
That is the point, isn't it? An abused person may, as said above, seek abusive relationships, because that is all they know, quite simply, or because they think they are not worth anything, as was also said.
I remember programs about how young (often abused) girls get into prostitution - the pimp seems to like and care for them.
What if you have an abused person who hungers for attention, and the dom says 'if you love me, do this?'
The thing is, that situation is not unusual in training, is it? Only it is not usually abusive.

PS. SSC, RACK and WIITWD (what is is that we do) are all terms created in the community to try to explain ourselves to those who don't, as an attempt to show consent and safety... so they'll stop bothering us. But it's no more or less safe and sane than contact football, racecar driving, skydiving, base jumping, stunting, "jackassing" or any number of hobbies the vanilla world participates in freely. It just happens to be sexual and that makes it a taboo and "somehow wrong" to them.
True.
But it may also serve as a guideline or comfort for people who are not sure if their fantasies and wants are abusive.