Osama Dead!!!

[Thorne]

Or in the immortal words of Oliver Hardy, "Now look what you made me do!"

"The devil made me do it!"

And he believed that the US made him do what he did. Vendettas only stop when people take responsibility for their own actions.

I'm a big proponent of being responsible for my own actions. Fortunately, I wasn't there to pull the trigger, or even to decide that the trigger needed to be pulled. I wasn't consulted by the political or military leaders of this country about how this whole thing should be handled. I am not personally responsible.

Still, as a citizen of the US, I feel just a little dirtier than I did before, as much for the action taken in my name as for the obscene celebrations which followed. It's a stain which no amount of water can cleanse, I'm afraid.

[Ozme52]

I hope all his virgins are men. LOL

Well, some believe that promise was marred by a translation error... and when he goes to be judged, he's going to be beaten by the likes of George Washington, Jefferson, and 70 other Virginians.

[denuseri]

I think the Seals decided for themselves that regardless of what they were told, if they got him in their sights they were gonna kill him, cuase they probabely figured if he was brought back alive justice wouldnt be done.

[IAN 2411]

I think the Seals decided for themselves that regardless of what they were told, if they got him in their sights they were gonna kill him, cuase they probabely figured if he was brought back alive justice wouldnt be done.

I have to dissagree with that statement denu, if the seals had been told to capture him if possible then I have to trust that the Special Forces would do just that. Or are do they differ from the Special Forces in the UK that I was in, and especialy if they were being watched by your pres. He was also a man with loads of information, and even now I am sorry but he was worth more alive than dead. Once again Dead or Alive?

Be well IAN 2411

[thir]

[QUOTE=denuseri;922456]
Both articles however lead me to believe that people are still having trouble seperating in their minds the difference between an everyday normal person who practices Islam, and a terreroist though, which is sad.

Oh yes, here too, and in DK too.

You hear about as much about violence against muslims over here as you hear about muslims condeming the terrorists.

again, same here..

Which imho only leads to more hate and fear , as if that is what the medias goal is...to promote scandal and fear, to get "rateings"...which I guess shouldnt be all that surprising considering all the majior media here is controled by corperate interests, which means all they really care about is profit.

I am afraid you are only too right here.

Violence against muslims is not nearly as wide spread as fear of them by any means from what I can tell.

But I imagine that the muslims themselves feel it differently.

So stupid being hard on them (every where it happens) you only force a friend, or at least a neutral, into an enemy, and in your midst too.

I have read a couple of articles by muslims explaining their place between a rock and a hard place, between their radical fellow-muslims wanting them to take action, and non-muslims seeing them as terrorists!

[MMI]

He died in a firefight ...

He cowered behind his wife ...

then

He was unarmed ...

He was captured alive ...

That he died is not really in question: that he was summarily executed is now the issue.

Did the US secretly send a military unit into foreign territory to conduct a legitimate mission, or was it a murder squad on a mission of revenge?

[MrEmann]

"The devil made me do it!"


I'm a big proponent of being responsible for my own actions. Fortunately, I wasn't there to pull the trigger, or even to decide that the trigger needed to be pulled. I wasn't consulted by the political or military leaders of this country about how this whole thing should be handled. I am not personally responsible.

Still, as a citizen of the US, I feel just a little dirtier than I did before, as much for the action taken in my name as for the obscene celebrations which followed. It's a stain which no amount of water can cleanse, I'm afraid.

Well as an American citizen Myself, I will lose no sleep at all over the death of that guy. I feel clean. I feel happy. I am not going to make excuses for the death of that asshat or the celebrations that followed.

As I said Damn right, I'm a Damn Yankee, and Damn proud of it. I was proud to be an American before 9/11. I am still proud to be an American. Perhaps even more proud today.

Is it over? Hell no. it may never be over. Still I rejoice, and not ashamed at all.

[IAN 2411]

I

He died in a firefight ...

He cowered behind his wife ...

then

He was unarmed ...

He was captured alive ...

That he died is not really in question: that he was summarily executed is now the issue.

Did the US secretly send a military unit into foreign territory to conduct a legitimate mission, or was it a murder squad on a mission of revenge?

Or was it a snatch squad? That he died in my opinion is in question.

In my opinion this whole affair seems to strange to be true, the American Seals have OBL standing in front of them. He holds all the untold secrets in his head of the biggest terrorist organisation in the world. He knows things that he could never put on a computer and what do they do? Oh yea they shoot him. Give me a break? I believe the American people and the rest of the world are doing exactly what the Am/intelligence expected them to do, celebrate his death.

Just because Al Qaida has asked for his body does not mean they know he is dead, it means he is out of their sight presumed dead. Ok one shot was fired, but that does not mean he was killed, it only means that one shot was fired and a man fell to the floor. I am afraid that in my opinion that does not constitute his death, it means he could have been sent to sleep by a fast acting drug.

All this crap about being buried at sea no pictures because of internal security, I personally believe that is all CIA hype. Ok you might say I am an unbeliever, yes that’s true and neither am I gullible to think like a sheep because the multitude think that way. I believe that he is now in a very safe place away from the rest of the world being interrogated by a few people that are in the know. No doubt he will be buried at sea, but it will be in secret but not for a while yet.

If he was alive it would make more sense to this over the top secrecy, but if he is dead it is because he deserved to be and I am not going to worry either way.

Be well IAN 2411

[IAN 2411]

SKY NEWS

At least 80 people have died after double suicide bomb blasts at a Pakistani paramilitary police training centre, said to be in revenge for Osama bin Laden's killing.

Pakistani Taliban militants have said they carried out the attacks, according to Reuters news agency.

"It's the first revenge for the martyrdom of... bin Laden. There will be more," Taliban spokesman Ehsanullah Ehsan said by telephone from an undisclosed location.

The atrocity has been condemned by Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari and British Foreign Secretary William Hague.

It was the bloodiest attack in the country since a US raid killed al Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden earlier this month.

Police officer Liaqat Ali Khan said 66 of the victims were recruits for the Frontier Corps, who were about to be bussed home from the centre.
The explosions detonated as the newly trained cadets - all wearing civilian clothes - were getting into coaches to begin 10 days of leave after their course.

The attack came as Pakistan's military and civilian leadership deals with the fallout from the killing of bin Laden by US special forces.

It took place in the Charsadda area, around 19 miles north of northwestern city Peshawar.

The region has been subject to a series of attacks on government forces by militants linked to the Taliban and al Qaeda.

President Zardari expressed his condolences with the families of those killed.

"The government and people are determined to defeat terrorism and such gruesome acts cannot deter the resolve of the nation which remains united to defeat terrorists," he said.

Mr Hague: "These attacks were cowardly and indiscriminate, killing many innocent bystanders and targeting those who serve to protect Pakistan."

The Pakistani Taliban last week threatened to attack security forces to avenge bin Laden's killing in a US helicopter raid north of the capital Islamabad on May 2.

More than 4,300 people have died in suicide and bomb attacks across Pakistan in the four years since government forces raided an extremist mosque in Islamabad in 2007.
..............................................

Now it begins, I wonder who is next?

Be well IAN 2411

[Thorne]

Now it begins, I wonder who is next?

Obviously they'll find someone else who had nothing to do with the attack on bin Laden and kill them, too. That seems to be how these things go. "You poked me in the ass so I'm gonna go and blow up that vegetable stand on the next block. That'll teach you a lesson, infidel!"

[thir]

I
I believe that he is now in a very safe place away from the rest of the world being interrogated by a few people that are in the know. No doubt he will be buried at sea, but it will be in secret but not for a while yet.

You have a point.

[thir]

Obviously they'll find someone else who had nothing to do with the attack on bin Laden and kill them, too. That seems to be how these things go. "You poked me in the ass so I'm gonna go and blow up that vegetable stand on the next block. That'll teach you a lesson, infidel!"

Well, that is the way these things are done, isn't it? After 9/11 a lot of completely innocent people in Afganistan, Guatanamo and other places have suffered and died.

Seems there is no law on either side, even less common sense.

[Thorne]

Seems there is no law on either side, even less common sense.

Amen!

[IAN 2411]

Egyptian named new Al-Qaeda leader

Report AFP – Tue, May 17, 2011


Al-Qaeda has chosen a former Egyptian Special Forces officer as interim leader of the violent extremist group in the wake of Osama bin Laden's death earlier this month, CNN reported Tuesday.

Saif al-Adel, a top Al-Qaeda strategist and senior military leader, has been tapped as "caretaker" chief of the group, CNN reported, citing former Libyan militant Noman Benotman, who has renounced Al-Qaeda's ideology.

Pakistan's The News newspaper corroborated the claim, citing unnamed sources in an article datelined Rawalpindi, a city home to the military headquarters of the Pakistani Armed Forces near the capital Islamabad.

The decision to chose Adel, also known as Muhamad Ibrahim Makkawi, came as militants grew increasingly restive over the lack of a formal successor to bin Laden, who was killed in a dramatic US commando raid deep in Pakistan on May 2, Benotman told CNN.

Bin Laden's long-time deputy Ayman al-Zawahiri, another Egyptian, is considered to be his presumed successor.

Benotman said the appointment of Adel on a temporary basis may be a way for the group to gauge reaction to having someone outside the Muslim holy region of the Arabian Peninsula at the helm.

....................................


Well i think that sums the death of OBL up.....now i suppose its more of the same.

Be well IAN 2411

[Thorne]

Well i think that sums the death of OBL up.....now i suppose its more of the same.

I wonder. Been thinking off and on about this, and if I remember correctly bin Laden had connections with the Saudi royal family, plus a boatload of money. Can things continue as before without those resources? Or will al Quida become the headless serpent thrashing in the dust as it's blood seeps away? Or will this appointment serve to split the group even more, forcing them to waste resources with infighting rather than acts of terror?

[IAN 2411]

I wonder. Been thinking off and on about this, and if I remember correctly bin Laden had connections with the Saudi royal family, plus a boatload of money. Can things continue as before without those resources? Or will al Quida become the headless serpent thrashing in the dust as it's blood seeps away? Or will this appointment serve to split the group even more, forcing them to waste resources with infighting rather than acts of terror?

I don’t think that Al-qaeda will be short of cash, there will be a banker backing them somewhere. All the drugs coming out of Afghanistan are not making the locals rich so someone other than they are reaping the rewards. Just like the IRA had Irish Americans, Irish Australians, and others from the fallen empire funding the cause through donations, so too will the Al-qeada. Terrorists and murderers deal in cash and the only time they look in a bank is on the point of robbery.

There are a hell of a lot of Al-qaeda sympathisers in the world, and if they only gave a $/£ each once a month. Then it is an awful large amount of honest cash going to a dishonest cause.

I do however like your thinking, “It would be nice it were fact and not wishful thinking.”

Be well IAN 2411

[IAN 2411]

Man’s £250k deep-sea quest for Osama bin Laden’s body.
A man has invested a fortune in a diving mission to find Osama bin Laden’s body and prove to the world that the al-Qaeda terrorist is really dead.


Professional treasure diver Bill Warren from San Diego, California, will spend next month exploring the depths of the north Arabian Sea for the watery remains of the mastermind behind the 9/11 attacks.


Using sophisticated technology, rented diving boats and a submarine, estimated at a cost of $400k (£250k), Mr Warren and his team hope to track down the body of bin Laden.


His team is expected to set off from Western India.

US Navy Seals dropped Osama bin Laden's body from the USS Carl Vinson into the Arabian Sea.

The eccentric 59-year-old told The New York Post why he had launched the costly expedition – reportedly funded by investors based in Chicago, Scotland and New York.


He is quoted as saying: “I am mainly doing it to prove a point to see if he is really dead. We do this because we are patriotic Americans and feel that President Obama failed to provide the proof.”


Mr Warren also added: “I have a Russian girlfriend, and she tells me that over there, in intelligence circles, they don't believe bin Laden's really dead. I do not trust my government or Obama.”


“The Obama administration should have released the photo, like we did with Billy the Kid, or Dillinger, or even Saddam Hussein.”


Talking about the challenge that lay ahead of him, Mr Warren plans to use high-tech side scan sonar which was used to find the Titanic.


US Navy Seals killed the world’s most-wanted terrorist at his compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan in May.


According to The White House, bin Laden was buried at sea from the USS Carl Vinson.


The US Government maintains that photographic evidence does exist. However, top-secret images of his corpse have only been seen by a select few politicians.


If Mr Warren manages to locate the body, he is set to carry out a DNA test onboard and deliver his own photographic evidence.
.................................................. .......................

Well I just don’t know what to say. I personally think that Mr Bill Warren is a complete lunatic, and most probably the best place for him is out at sea. At least while he is out there the rest of the population still on land are safe from him.

Be well IAN 2411

[Thorne]

Well I just don’t know what to say. I personally think that Mr Bill Warren is a complete lunatic, and most probably the best place for him is out at sea. At least while he is out there the rest of the population still on land are safe from him.

Wow! I have to agree with you, Ian. This guys a real wacko. Using "high-tech side scan sonar which was used to find the Titanic"? To find one body? Russian intelligence analysis based upon his girlfriend? LOL! Just WOW!

Unless the Navy sealed OBL into a lead coffin, I doubt there would be much left of him to identify after even this relatively short period. There are hungry creatures at the bottom of the sea. And as pestilential as we may have considered OBL to be, those creatures will consider him a heavenly feast.

[denuseri]

According to Rueters: JoAnne Allen:

Pakistan's top military spy agency has arrested five CIA informants who fed information to U.S. intelligence before the raid last month which killed Osama bin Laden, The New York Times reported on Wednesday.
One of the detainees was reported to be a Pakistani Army major whom officials said copied license plates of cars visiting the al Qaeda leader's compound 30 miles northwest of Islamabad.
The fate of the CIA informants arrested in Pakistan was unclear, the newspaper reported, citing American officials.
Outgoing CIA Director Leon Panetta raised the issue of the informants' detention during a trip to Islamabad last week where he met Pakistani military and intelligence officers, the newspaper said.
The Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) directorate, Pakistan's main military spy agency, declined to comment, but the army denied that any army major was among those arrested in connection with the May 2 raid by U.S. special forces in the garrison town of Abbottabad.
"There is no truth in NYT story with regards to involvement and arrest of army major in connection with the OBL (Osama bin Laden) incident," military spokesman Major-General Athar Abbas said in a statement.
A senior Pakistani security official said some people were detained in connection with the Abbottabad raid and they were still being investigated.
Asked whether those arrested were CIA informants as mentioned in the NYT report, he said: "Investigations are under way and after completion of investigation one cay say which category they belonged to."
Some in Washington see the arrest as another sign of the deep disconnect between U.S. and Pakistani priorities in the fight against extremists, the Times reported.
The United States kept Islamabad in the dark about the May 2 raid by Navy SEALs until after it was completed, humiliating Pakistan's armed forces and putting U.S. military and intelligence ties under serious strain.
Last week, at a closed Senate Intelligence Committee briefing, Deputy CIA Director Michael Morell rated Pakistan's cooperation with the United States on counterterrorism operations a "three" on a scale of 1 to 10, the Times reported, citing officials familiar with the exchange.
Other officials cautioned that his comments did not represent the administration's overall assessment, the newspaper said. "We have a strong relationship with our Pakistani counterparts and work through issues when they arise," CIA spokesman Marie Harf told the newspaper.
"Director Panetta had productive meetings last week in Islamabad. It's a crucial partnership, and we will continue to work together in the fight against Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups who threaten our country and theirs."
Asked about the Times report, a CIA spokeswoman neither confirmed nor denied it and said she had no further comment.
Pakistan's Ambassador to the United States, Husain Haqqani, was quoted as saying that the CIA and the Pakistani spy agency "are working out mutually agreeable terms for their cooperation in fighting the menace of terrorism. It is not appropriate for us to get into the details at this stage."

[Stealth694]

Translation: Mind Your Own Business...
Those informants are probably dead or dying.
How many High level Pakistani officials have lost a cash cow with Osama Dead?

[IAN 2411]

Translation: Mind Your Own Business...
Those informants are probably dead or dying.
How many High level Pakistani officials have lost a cash cow with Osama Dead?

I am in full agrement with all you have said. When are the UK and American Governments going to realise that Pakistan are only interested in saving their own ass.

Be well IAN 2411

[IAN 2411]

Al-Qaeda names Zawahiri to succeed bin Laden


Factfile on new al-Qaeda chief Ayman al-Zawahiri
Al-Qaeda on Thursday named its second in command Ayman al-Zawahiri to succeed slain chief Osama bin Laden and vowed to relentlessly pursue its "jihad' against the United States and Israel.

"The general command of Al-Qaeda announces, after consultations, the appointment of Sheikh Ayman al-Zawahiri as head of the group," the jihadist network said in statement posted on an Islamist website.

Egyptian Zawahiri, the group's long-time number two, succeeds bin Laden who was killed by US commandos in a May 2 raid in Pakistan.

The statement said that under Zawahiri's leadership Al-Qaeda would relentlessly pursue its 'jihad' (holy war) against the United States and Israel.

"We seek with the aid of God to call for the religion of truth and incite our nation to fight ... by carrying out jihad against the apostate invaders ... with their head being crusader America and its servant Israel, and whoever supports them," said the statement.

The fight would continue "until all invading armies leave the land of Islam."

The extremist network affirmed that it would not "recognise any legitimacy of the so-called State of Israel."

"We will not accept or adhere to any agreement or accord that recognises it (Israel) or that robs a mile from Palestine, whether it is the United Nations controlled by top criminals or any other organisation."

Al-Qaeda also voiced its "support (to) the uprisings of our oppressed Muslim people against the corrupt and tyrant leaders who have made our nation suffer in Egypt, Tunisia, Libya Yemen, Syria and Morocco."

A wave of revolts that have rocked the Middle East and North Africa since December have succeeded in toppling autocrats in Egypt and Tunisia while others, such as Libya's Moamer Kadhafi and Syria's Bashar al-Assad are still battling uprisings in their countries.

Al-Qaeda urged those involved in the uprisings to continue their "struggle until the fall of all corrupt regimes that the West has forced onto our countries."

The extremist Sunni group made no mention of the Shiite-led uprising in the Gulf kingdom of Bahrain, crushed in mid-March by the ruling Western-allied Sunni minority which was backed by joint Gulf Arab forces.

In the last part of the statement however, the network reminds that "our religion has forbidden oppression, against Muslims and non-Muslims, against friend and foe."

"Therefore, we assure every oppressed human in this world -- most of whom are the victims of Western and American crimes -- that our religion is that of justice and equality," it said.

Like his slain Saudi-born co-conspirator, the 59-year-old surgeon Zawahiri has been hiding ever since the United States declared its war on terror after the September 11, 2001 attacks.

Zawahiri, now the United State's most wanted man, was jailed for three years in Egypt for militancy and was implicated in the assassination of Egyptian president Anwar Sadat in 1981, and a 1997 massacre of tourists in Luxor.

Facing a death sentence, he left Egypt in the mid-1980s initially for Saudi Arabia, but soon headed for Pakistan's northwestern city of Peshawar where the resistance to the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan was based, and then to Afghanistan, where he joined forces with bin Laden.

Zawahiri, gifted with brains but bereft of bin Laden's potent charisma, has long been seen as the mastermind behind the global terror franchise.

From hiding, he has issued video missives calling for war on the West. The most recent was a filmed eulogy to bin Laden, vowing to pursue jihad in a tape reported by the SITE Intelligence Group on June 8.

It was a message of loyalty to bin Laden, whom analysts believe alone had the charisma capable of uniting an increasingly disparate group divided between Egyptians and non-Egyptian Arabs.

The eulogy came nearly a month after a Saudi newspaper reported on May 5 that as the struggle for power simmered within the network, Zawahiri led US troops to bin Laden through his courier.

Al-Watan newspaper, quoting an unnamed "regional source," had said the top two Al-Qaeda men had differences and that the courier was a Pakistani national who knew he was being followed by the US military but disguised the fact.

With the return of an Egyptian figure in Al-Qaeda, Saif al-Adel, last autumn from Iran, the Egyptian faction had hatched a plan to dispose of Saudi-born bin Laden, according to Al-Watan.

It said Zawahiri's faction had persuaded bin Laden to leave tribal areas along the Afghan-Pakistan border and take shelter instead in Abbottabad near Islamabad where he was finally unearthed and shot dead by elite US Navy SEALs.
.................................................. ......

Well there you have it, as one fanatical lunatic expires another one takes his place, or has Zawahiri only just been recognised as the mastermind behind El-Qaeda? With the record this guy has it makes you wonder.

Be well IAN 2411