The Human Rights of Child Killers.

[IAN 2411]

I must admit I have trouble with the whole 'make them suffer - revenge' idea. It's - just not important.

Where o where have I mentioned “revenge,” let’s get things put in the right context. Harsh punishment is not revenge, it is justice.

One is that they cannot escape. But another is that most sentences are not for life. So, as I see it, society is best protected by trying hard to rehabilitate the prisoners.
It is proven over and over again that harsh punishment (including death the sentence) does not scare people from committing crimes. But rehabilitation might stop them from doing it again, and that is what is important.

If a man at 25 imprisons, rapes and then selfishly kills a child, or for that matter anyone, with the only reason that killing is to escape justice and incarceration? Then the fact is that he has not picked up in that 25 years the basic principle that all mortals have the human right to live. I would very much doubt that after another 25 years in prison he is going to be installed with, thou shall not rape and kill in his/her warped and twisted brain.

Be Well IAN 2411

[leo9]

Harsh punishment is not revenge, it is justice.

I'd like to be clearer about the distinction as you see it.

If someone breaks my arm, and I break theirs, I call that revenge, and I guess you do too.

If someone breaks my arm, and I take them to court and the judge orders that a policeman should beak their arm, is that what you call justice? Or just state regulated revenge?

[Ozme52]

Where o where have I mentioned “revenge,” let’s get things put in the right context. Harsh punishment is not revenge, it is justice.

I'll bow out... can't have this conversation if you don't agree on the definitions of words. You describe vengeful punishment and choose to call it justice. In-so-far as I disagree with your definitions, all we can do is go round in circles.

[IAN 2411]

I'll bow out... can't have this conversation if you don't agree on the definitions of words. You describe vengeful punishment and choose to call it justice. In-so-far as I disagree with your definitions, all we can do is go round in circles.

REVENGE... Wikipedia,
Although revenge resembles some conceptions of justice, vengeance is usually depicted as more injurious and punitive as opposed to being harmonious and restorative. Whereas justice implies actions undertaken and supported by a legitimate judicial system grounded upon a foundation of ethics and morals of the authority recognized by the victims and usually the wrongdoer, revenge implies actions undertaken by an individual or narrowly defined group outside the boundaries of acceptable judicial or ethical conduct whose goal is to force a wrongdoer to suffer the same or greater pain or loss than that which was originally inflicted to the victim(s).
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Now are we all happy with Justice.


BE well IAN 2411

[thir]

[QUOTE=IAN 2411;931020]REVENGE... Wikipedia,
Although revenge resembles some conceptions of justice, vengeance is usually depicted as more injurious and punitive as opposed to being harmonious and restorative. Whereas justice implies actions undertaken and supported by a legitimate judicial system grounded upon a foundation of ethics and morals of the authority recognized by the victims and usually the wrongdoer, revenge implies actions undertaken by an individual or narrowly defined group outside the boundaries of acceptable judicial or ethical conduct whose goal is to force a wrongdoer to suffer the same or greater pain or loss than that which was originally inflicted to the victim(s).
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So, the only thing difference between vengence and justice is that vengence is private, and justice is public? So all official laws are just, by definition? And always accepted?

I kind of feel that there is more to that word (justice) than that. It was a surprise to me when I first discovered that to many people 'justice' mean punishment. Or maybe rather 'just punishment'. To me it is wider concept than that, more about about a 'fairness', or a righting of a wrong.

You say that an action is 'justified' if you feel it is right, and 'unjustified' if you feel it is wrong. to get justice can also mean to have a wrong righted.

Any takings of a definition out there? It had a direct bearing on whether or not some kinds of crime should be punished harder or not.

[Thorne]

One thing the criminal justice system is NOT is just. A father shoplifting from a grocery store to feed his starving family should NOT be treated worse than a Madoff who ripped off millions, if not billions, of people's hard earned money. Yet Madoff gets a country-club prison while the dad gets hard time. Putting someone away for 10 years for possession of marijuana while a DUI who runs over a kid gets a suspended sentence isn't justice, either.

To my mind, justice means making the criminal repay the victim, where possible. This doesn't necessarily mean going to prison. It also doesn't mean letting those who can afford it get away with crime. And sometimes it means killing the criminal to protect society.