too tired?

[Ozme52]

Yet even in such a relationship where consent has been pre-negotiated, is one not still legally allowed to revoke said consent at any time?

Of course. But as Austerus notes, those in 24/7 relationships have far more complex negotiations that relate to long term D/s. The statement that one is too tired doesn't change the fact, let's say, that the submissive has given the power of that decision over to the dominant. One can't be 24/7 and then say "but only when I'm in the mood."

You are correct of course, you have the final right to revoke consent, but imo, doing so revokes the entire agreement and ends the 24/7 D/s relationship, perhaps allowing a new negotiation to take place or perhaps ending the D/s relationship all together. One would have to question the value of that particular 24/7 relationship if the dominant couldn't "read" the submissive well enough to know the seriousness of the "too tired" comment that they would force the submissive to revoke. There are all to many levels of tired... and I myself know that though I'm often too tired to go see friends, I'm never sorry that I dragged myself out to do so. So there's clearly tired and too tired, but even then, what does that mean? Too tired to even eat? You're going straight to bed? Or you just want to choose your mode of relaxing?

But if that's what you want, you shouldn't be 24/7.

And really now... who in the world is too tired for hot sex except when they actually want to exert control. (Okay, that may be a bit of hyperbole, but my point is that the submissive doesn't get to make the decision, except to revoke consent... and doing so isn't merely a "time out".)

[denuseri]

Of course. But as Austerus notes, those in 24/7 relationships have far more complex negotiations that relate to long term D/s. The statement that one is too tired doesn't change the fact, let's say, that the submissive has given the power of that decision over to the dominant. One can't be 24/7 and then say "but only when I'm in the mood."

You are correct of course, you have the final right to revoke consent, but imo, doing so revokes the entire agreement and ends the 24/7 D/s relationship, perhaps allowing a new negotiation to take place or perhaps ending the D/s relationship all together. One would have to question the value of that particular 24/7 relationship if the dominant couldn't "read" the submissive well enough to know the seriousness of the "too tired" comment that they would force the submissive to revoke. There are all to many levels of tired... and I myself know that though I'm often too tired to go see friends, I'm never sorry that I dragged myself out to do so. So there's clearly tired and too tired, but even then, what does that mean? Too tired to even eat? You're going straight to bed? Or you just want to choose your mode of relaxing?

But if that's what you want, you shouldn't be 24/7.

And really now... who in the world is too tired for hot sex except when they actually want to exert control. (Okay, that may be a bit of hyperbole, but my point is that the submissive doesn't get to make the decision, except to revoke consent... and doing so isn't merely a "time out".)

I concur entirely oh great Wizard. At least in so far as the 24/7 TPE arrangement is a real life one.

[thir]

And really now... who in the world is too tired for hot sex except when they actually want to exert control. (Okay, that may be a bit of hyperbole, but my point is that the submissive doesn't get to make the decision, except to revoke consent... and doing so isn't merely a "time out".)

I.

I have a chronic disease which often makes me too tired or too ill for sex. I can well imagine other people who have either a health problem and/or an impossibly busy time, or maybe a bereavement (grief can make your weirdly tired) or the like.

If you are blessed with a good health you may see tiredness as a sort of whim, in which case I can tell you that it is an ironhard fact of life, which you cannot ignore!

As I see it, depending on the situation the dom is supposed to know the sub enough to know what this tiredness is about, and to make a qualified reaction to the situation.

[Ozme52]

I.

I have a chronic disease which often makes me too tired or too ill for sex. I can well imagine other people who have either a health problem and/or an impossibly busy time, or maybe a bereavement (grief can make your weirdly tired) or the like.

If you are blessed with a good health you may see tiredness as a sort of whim, in which case I can tell you that it is an ironhard fact of life, which you cannot ignore!

As I see it, depending on the situation the dom is supposed to know the sub enough to know what this tiredness is about, and to make a qualified reaction to the situation.

But we're definitely not talking about chronic health issues. We're in the realm of a hard day at work, school, or even play. Everything is situational and this is outside the previously presumed bounds of the original question. Nothing I've said about it applies to health concerns.

I've already noted that there's a relevent (spelled correctly this time,) distinction between merely not being in the mood and real concerns. I've also noted the distinction between 24/7 relationships and only-in-the-bedroom relationships.

[thir]

But we're definitely not talking about chronic health issues. We're in the realm of a hard day at work, school, or even play. Everything is situational and this is outside the previously presumed bounds of the original question. Nothing I've said about it applies to health concerns.

I've already noted that there's a relevent (spelled correctly this time,) distinction between merely not being in the mood and real concerns. I've also noted the distinction between 24/7 relationships and only-in-the-bedroom relationships.

My point in mentioning chronic illnesses was simply to make clear that whatever, tiredness is always a health issue and nothing to do with 'not being in the mood'. It should always be taken seriously, just as a headache, a stomach ache, or the like.

As I also noted, if TPT the dominant has the say in the matter, but only an idiot would force him or herself on a truly tired person. It would be like fucking a person who threw up, or who screamed with pain from the head for every thrust.

[Ozme52]

My point in mentioning chronic illnesses was simply to make clear that whatever, tiredness is always a health issue and nothing to do with 'not being in the mood'. It should always be taken seriously, just as a headache, a stomach ache, or the like.

And my point is this thread even starts with tired in quotes. That implies tired isn't even the real issue. So...

Do we need to discuss health concerns in a thread that asks the question about mood, (and not mood disorders.)
Does every conversation have to delve into every situation or nuance? Or can we stay within the context of the OP.

As I also noted, if TPT the dominant has the say in the matter, but only an idiot would force him or herself on a truly tired person. It would be like fucking a person who threw up, or who screamed with pain from the head for every thrust.

But since you feel we must discuss this, and you are clearly implying some of us are idiots for ignoring the health aspects of being "tired", I'll leave and go find something else to talk about...

.

[thir]

And my point is this thread even starts with tired in quotes. That implies tired isn't even the real issue. So...

So it does! My mistake.

sammybitch, what did you mean?? Did you mean 'not in the mood', or something else?

But since you feel we must discuss this, and you are clearly implying some of us are idiots for ignoring the health aspects of being "tired", I'll leave and go find something else to talk about...

I am sorry if I got it wrong and high-jacked the topic - that was definitly not my intention.
Nor am I implying that anyone is an idiot!

That said, if you think my mails lead the topic in a wrong direction, why not just let them be??
No need to let me spoil the whole thing for you. Please do ignore it and go on.