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[xspy4u]

I lamented over posting this as the topic has been done before…but I’m a writer so I write stuff out.

It’s a conundrum. Studies prove that ‘financial’ rewards are not as an important motivator as other factors. Internet authors are a perfect example. We write because we have a passion, and we write because we have a story and we write to please the reader. Any writer who says, it’s not about the numbers, ratings or responses is in a very, very deep state of denial. If we did not want a response to our writing then we would not publish. Opinions will differ on this, so we can agree to disagree

Before I started publishing erotica, I was an avid reader. Moreover, like the vast majority, I read great stories and never commented or rated or provided email feedback. The reason was simple. The writer surely knows they did a great job, why do they need to hear from me. When I started writing my own stuff, I completely forgot that experience. I assumed writers received plenty of feedback and did not need mine. The experience was remembered when 10K people viewed at least part of my story and only three commented (on other sites it is higher, but percentage of response/readership is the same).

Here’s what helped me realize that the reader doesn’t understand the motivating power they have over a writer whose work they enjoy. I write semi-long series. Often the world of responsibilities requires that I take time off from writing to attend other things. On a number of occasions, I have received a sea of passionate requests to “continue” the story. I asked myself; if these people love this so much and have taken the time to write me now…then why didn’t they comment or rate the story in the first place. My answer, they do not know it is important to the writer.

Now if readers like Jimmy Jump populated the site, we would all be very happy. The guy has the highest commenting rate of anyone, is always respectful and provides thoughtful and accurate criticism. But of course it is not filled with those types of readers. And the reader’s have no responsibility to us, but we have a huge responsibility to them. So I am suggesting two different strategies to increase comments. Strategy 1, is to publically reward through recognition the top 5 “commenters” of the month. Now there may be something in it for the reader, and it makes rating stories important because it is something that is measured. I will leave that to the site administrators to decide since as they have pointed out…they have lives too.

The second strategy is simpler. Every writer should rate and comment on at least three stories a month. Why? Because you get what you give. More importantly, it creates a true community of writers who balance their own egos with support for others who labor passionately in the dead of night to create something for the reader. Because I practice what I preach, I have committed myself to this monthly review. I may never catch up to Jimmy Jump’s numbers, but at least I am not being a hypocrite asking for something that I am not doing for fellow writers. If you want my input because I missed your story…send me an email…the first review is free…the rest will require that you first return the favor.

Well there is my two cents, pounds or quid, thanks for your time.

[Omega22]

I think the problem is with demands for review quality and they are hard to post.
Not everybody wants to start in depth analysis if they just liked that story

I think comment box should be at the end of each story and anyone unregistered should be allowed to post comments.
That way is used on some other sites and it gives perfect results.

Another problem is that if you do not expect reply there is no pleasure to write any comments either.
most of stories are quite old and not clear if their authors still exist or read anything.
It would be nice to have some indicator when story author checked comments last time and maybe if he is working on other stories.

It must be not one way monologue, but live conversation between author and readers.

[Venom]

I'm so with you on this one!

xspy4u, I'm finding myself in every sentence you wrote.

Omega, at least there can be a rating box at the end of each story. If we somewhat disconnect the 1-10 rating and the actual comments, maybe we get at least feedback rating-wise from readers who are "afraid" of writing a comment.
Unregistered readers should only be allowed to give a rating -- that way someone who comments may feel more responsible for what they are writing. If someone first log-in or even register for commenting, they hopefully really want to share constructive criticism.

I want feedback as badly as you, but I can do without "uR stori sux!!!fuck"...


Well, now I'm going to comment something!

[lucy]

This has bothered me for a long time, too. In the meantime I get detailed feedback from the two persons closest to my heart and so I'm not very desperate for comments anymore.
Of course I do like it if someone like the aforementioned Jimmy Jump jumps in and gives his two cents (and usually it's much more than just two cents), but it's not what motivates me. I would write just as much if only those two person would ever read my scribblings.

Maybe the first idea could work. Dunno, really. It wouldn't motivate me to write a comment. Maybe it motivates others.

The second idea: No thanks. Been there, done that. For a while I complained about not getting feedback so much that my Master made me write five comments for every story I posted. It sucked big time, mostly because I had to read those five stories first and I don't really like to read erotica.

So, no, I don't comment. Sounds selfish, but after investing quite a large chunk of my spare time in writing a story I think I am entitled to just lean back, read a story once in a while and just enjoy it without having to write a comment.

Writing a proper comment takes time. Time which I rather spend on writing myself, to be honest. I do however reply to every comment I get. Or at least I try to.

And as Venom pointed out: I rather have one detailed feedback than 20 "nice story"-comments.

Not sure about the rating box. I've gotten a 1 rating once, just because one of my stories was called "Partygirl" but was written in German and the reader was so pissed off by this that he clicked the '1'. I can do without such crap, too.

[Razor7826]

My thoughts on reviews, and why each story gets so few:

- Overall low traffic to stories that aren't on the front page.
- Overall low review % out of how many people read the stories (do you need an account to leave a review? I think you do, and I if I'm right that is a barrier to participation). One of my stories has 2 reviews for 20k views, or a .01% review rate.
- If you haven't published any stories RECENTLY, you won't get any reviews at all. I think I've only gotten 0~2 reviews in the last year, despite having 20 stories on the site.

I'd like to see a rating and review box at the end of each story, no registration necessary to leave reviews, and the top and bottom 10% of reviews for each story left out of the average, to mitigate random trolling. I've responded to most reviews people have left, but it hasn't seemed to help.

[H Dean]

It's unfortunate that more people don't bother to comment on stories. I try to review every tale I read - whether it's good or bad. Tis only civilized, after all. As far as I can tell, the only way to ensure people bother to comment is to respond to each and every comment they leave. I am always certain to do this.

As for the poor amount of reviews you get - well, I've a tale that has over 70K hits and only 6 reviews. One comment was asinine and the reader never bothered to respond to my question as to why he commented as he did. I, for one, tend to take it for granted I won't get much feedback. As a consequence, I have taken my ball and am going home. Home being a site that pays me for my stories. Cash is better than any review I could get from the Plebians who know only about the pleasure they give their cocks or pussies and refuse to review the stories they have read.

[ksst]

I haven't reviewed or commented on the stories I read. I didn't think it was important to anyone(hanging head). I'll go do it now.

[Razor7826]

H Dean: Do you get paid well for selling your stories? Do you get paid per sale, or per story? Are the stories at all linked to your real name/ID? If it is possible to sell stories completely anonymously, then I may be interested.

[Omega22]

@Venom

at least for me if someone compliments me how sick is my story I don't mind because that how it is supposed to be.
you have to high demands and so you may receive nothing.

it is quite rare that someone will write "uR stori sux!!!fuck".. since these people just don't scroll it to the end to reach the comment box.
and even in that case you at least know that someone at least looked into your story and if it sucks then there are another comments that explain why.

Story rating is misleading and useless thing. it does not show quality if the story, it merely shows if your story match readers fetishes.
I prefer to interpret rating in form of graph, if story has positive and negative votes then it is good one, if all voter are on the middle then it is crap.

[Venom]

I haven't reviewed or commented on the stories I read. I didn't think it was important to anyone(hanging head). I'll go do it now.

It's never too late...

@Omega: Yet the first question in this thread is how to get more reviews/feedback. Then we can think about how to get better (=qualified) ones. Well, on second thoughts, I rather would like to have some qualified than many pointless reviews.

I agree: Take two 5/10-stories, and the one with a lot of 1's and 10's in its rating is probably more interesting, more progressive, less mainstream for a certain clientele than the one with nothing but 5's.

[lucy]

H Dean: Do you get paid well for selling your stories? Do you get paid per sale, or per story? Are the stories at all linked to your real name/ID? If it is possible to sell stories completely anonymously, then I may be interested.

Sorry if I chime in, especially since I'm not H Dean. I get paid per book. Whether it's paid well or not is difficult to say. I get 40% of the sales price. That used to be quite OK, but with sales being made in $ and me having to convert them into Swiss Francs and the current exchange rates for the $ falling faster than a basejumper I feel increasingly screwed ... and not in a good way either

By my reckoning the only thing that needs to be linked to the real you is a Paypal account. But I guess for someone a bit more adept than me it could be possible to veil that, too. Either way, the only person who would know your name is your publisher. Which, in my case, has an alias himself.

[delish]

I've been remiss in writing reviews, but I have to admit that nothing makes me happier than when an author replies directly to my comment. Notable for this are H Dean and lovelyandsad.

Sometimes I click on a story and realize within the first paragraph that the writing doesn't appeal to me at all. There are a LOT of stories on the site, so if the opening is full of typos and stilted writing, I don't have time to finish it, and I feel it would be rude to pass judgement because I didn't consume the whole thing. I also won't comment if an author has been argumentative with a reviewer. That said, I will try and comment more frequently, it's just not always as simple as "Good story 10/10."

[H Dean]

H Dean: Do you get paid well for selling your stories? Do you get paid per sale, or per story? Are the stories at all linked to your real name/ID? If it is possible to sell stories completely anonymously, then I may be interested.

Razor - I started a Paypal account to get paid. It is linked to my checking account. When I get $150 worth of sales I get paid. Which works because Paypal takes out a certain percentage per transaction. I believe there is also a quarterly payout in case your sales don't total $150.

The way it works on BDSM books is you get 50-50 if you give them an exclusive (which I did) or you get 40% if you don't give them an exclusive. I should add that BDSM Books is run by a friend of mine - an author here - by the moniker of Clevernick. I gave him the first shot at my stuff and gave him exclusivity, as well. So far, I am happy with how things are going. The stories are all published under the name H. Dean - the only thing in my personal name is my Paypal account which, as I mentioned, goes straight into my bank account.

Give Nick a try. Tell him I sent you.

H Dean

[H Dean]

Sorry if I chime in, especially since I'm not H Dean. I get paid per book. Whether it's paid well or not is difficult to say. I get 40% of the sales price. That used to be quite OK, but with sales being made in $ and me having to convert them into Swiss Francs and the current exchange rates for the $ falling faster than a basejumper I feel increasingly screwed ... and not in a good way either

By my reckoning the only thing that needs to be linked to the real you is a Paypal account. But I guess for someone a bit more adept than me it could be possible to veil that, too. Either way, the only person who would know your name is your publisher. Which, in my case, has an alias himself.

Here I thought you would remain neutral on the matter.

[Curtis]

Reviews — My sole story on this site received three insightful reviews at the time, and three personal e-mails, which were equally useful. I counted myself very fortunate. Not a single 'good story' response in the bunch, and I learned something from each of them. (I believe that it has received additional reviews in the intervening years, but I don't receive notice of reviews… or of responses to my own reviews, and I don't know why. Is Safari an incompatible browser?)

I am not fond of the comment system on GaggedUtopia's site. I rather like that the numerical values can be posted anonymously, and that you can re-rate every time an update is posted, but I HATE the anonymous commenting. Almost invariably it's inane, and if you post criticism the next five comments are flaming yours and have nothing to do with the story. A good compromise would be to allow rating without registering, but require registration for comments.

[Omega22]

A good compromise would be to allow rating without registering, but require registration for comments.

thats not compromise.
you should ask for feature to disable comments for unregistered users, because I other may want otherwise.

[Curtis]

thats not compromise.

A position between two other positions is not a compromise? Perhaps I should've said that I straddled the fence on this issue.

[Garmonbozia]

I am not a fan of any kind of quid pro quo system, or having writers review other stories to be part of the community. I haven't written one review yet, though I do intend to do a couple for some very old stories, but it is mainly because I don't read anything (many reasons for that not needed here). I can't review what I have not read.

What I have found personally (and I haven't been at this for long) is that each time I really only get a review when a new chapter is posted. They always happen within a day or two of the update so it definitely ties in to having your story on the front page. If you story was written a long time ago the likelihood of some new reviews is low. The problem with this is that people comment on unfinished stories and while it's great if the feedback is positive, it can sometimes be detrimental to comment on a deficiency in a story, as you see it, that will be explained or expanded upon in a later chapter and people never go back and edit a review - but there are pitfalls to everything.

The review system is massively important though, as some people use it as their sole tool to choose what to read. There is so much stuff out there that you just can't read it all, and if you try to find something to your liking you usually waste a lot of time on misses rather than hits.

While I love to see new reviews (yay for positive ones), they let me know that it will be easier for someone to find a story of mine through the search tool, my most valuable source of feedback has come from people who have contacted me personally. Most of the people I converse with, or who have just emailed to let me know they enjoyed the story or with some more in depth feedback, have not left reviews. Some have sent me close to a hundred emails over time and yet not left a review - that must say something for the process itself.

And even those reviews that are one line, they still have value and merit. Someone has enjoyed the story enough to write that, when the vast majority do not. I am thankful for every review I receive because I know how rare they truly are. Maybe the registration process is detrimental, a lot of stuff could be a lot more user friendly, but I feel it is necessary. A lot of people aren't interested in posting to the forums ever so having the registration tied to it may just be putting some potential reviewers off.

[lucy]

Tbh, I'm beginning to believe this is a problem more or less unique to this site, at least judging from my observations. Recently I started to post on a different site and have taken up posting my German stories on two different German sites. On all three of them I get much more feedback (both ratings and detailed critiques) than I get here.

One of the German stories was read about 3000 times, rated 76 times and I got 17 critiques, 12 of which were actually helpful (and encouraging).

[MrDang]

Hm, I can't help but feel a little discouraged reading this thread. Can't help but wonder if I'm not better off trying to find somewhere else to post my story.

[lucy]

@vdai: post them on several. That way you get max responses.

[himannv]

The second strategy is simpler. Every writer should rate and comment on at least three stories a month.

Going to make it a point to do this. Will try and do more than three if it helps but I think feedback is something that will help writers on the whole and make them better at what they do.

[MrDang]

@lucy: Could you name a few? I'm only familiar with BDSM Stories and Alt.Sex.Stories Text Repository (asstr.org)

PS: What an incredibly erotic profile pic you have.

[Garmonbozia]

I have thought about the review process here a little since reading this thread for the first time and a few things have jumped out that I think bear discussion.

Why is it that the reviews on this site, with the exception of a very small number of dedicated reviewers, consist of either one or two lines of praise or many paragraphs of invective?

Sites like imdb and amazon attract people who take time out of their day to review movies and books and cds and are able to write coherent and insightful reviews that encompass the work, its failings and its triumphs. Why does this not happen here? A lot more people visit imdb and amazon but my initial thought was that while the people who read bdsm stories are niche, they are still a solid cross-section of society.

Now to be honest a lot of what is published here is not of a high standard (I have attempted to read four stories over the recent months and been dissuaded from finishing any - a big issue seems to be formatting, spelling and grammar). Having said that, there are some excellent stories here of a very high standard. I think the problem might be that these stories are simply hard to find, buried like a diamond in the mud. You need the review process to find them, but if the review process doesn't work properly, well then it seems we find ourselves in a catch 22 situation.

There are problems with the site itself (story format - those fucking black diamonds!) and with the review process (no formatting whatsoever) but I don't think these are the reason why so few people review and when they do, the reviews are so short. I have thought about this a little and I'm sorry not to be able to come up with an answer. I can just pose more questions.

If Lucy, or anyone else with the knowledge, could post the names of a few sites that do have a good review process I would love to check them out, compare and hopefully come to a conclusion that may help.

[Venom]

Maybe there is some kind of barrier to comment on style and spelling when it comes to sex stories. Maybe most (?) readers think of it as commenting on the storyline and acting of a porn movie.



Literotica has a review system similar to the one on this site. It's worth mentioning that a story of mine polarised the readership there and granted me five reviews in a relatively short time (six at all, from 20th of November to 28th of December). Three are pro, three are contra. The story itself is "hard" in BDSM Library codes and far from breaking any taboos. I'm sure there would not have been such kind of feedback around here, simply because this audience has other standards. The three contras reviewed because they hated my work, the three pros did so because they considered the contras' reviews unjust.

Utopiastories (Gagged Utopia's Story Archive) has a very strong review culture: many comments (mostly short ones), many votes in the ratings of stories. It is to say, though, that the overall quality of the stories is rather high, too.

[lucy]

@lucy: Could you name a few? I'm only familiar with BDSM Stories and Alt.Sex.Stories Text Repository (asstr.org)

PS: What an incredibly erotic profile pic you have.

Sorry MrDang, I've left for Melbourne just a few days before you posted and only saw this now.
Yeah, and thanks for the compliment about my pic. I too think it's incredibly erotic, although, or, maybe because the woman in the pic isn't me.


Literotica is a very big one and probably one of the best known. There are others, smaller ones, but I'll have to come back later when I'm on the craptop on which I have them bookmarked.