vegan, animal abuse, porn.

[thir]

I'd prefer to look at just about anybody's porn site rather than peta's. They are a bunch of wackos who do not stand for animal welfare, but for animal rights, which is an entirely different thing. And the leadership has the stated goal of the elimination of domestic animals.

I don't think veganism is a great thing either.

I had not caught on to that difference, wellfare versus rights, will look into that. Off hand 'rights' sound better.

[Thorne]

I had not caught on to that difference, wellfare versus rights, will look into that. Off hand 'rights' sound better.

Then what about the rights of the vegetables? They're living things too, aren't they? Why is it okay to rip carrots out of the ground, skin them with a peeler and chop them up for a salad? Don't they have the right to humane treatment?

These PETA people seem to want to give more "rights" to the animals than they are willing to give to other humans. They want to empty out the zoos, despite the fact that this would virtually guarantee the extinction of who knows how many species. Or should we, perhaps, tear down our cities and suburbs and give the land back to the animals? After all, they were here first. They have the "right" to their own land.

[lucy]

They have the "right" to their own land.

Exactly. They also have a right not to be hungry. Right now I'm envisioning a bear or a wolf munching on the perfect ass of a PETA porn model.

Hmm, there might be a silly story in this.

[Thorne]

Right now I'm envisioning a bear or a wolf munching on the perfect ass of a PETA porn model.

Nah. The perfect ass has some MEAT on it!

[thir]

Then what about the rights of the vegetables? They're living things too, aren't they? Why is it okay to rip carrots out of the ground, skin them with a peeler and chop them up for a salad? Don't they have the right to humane treatment?

What a lovely idea! Why don't you start an organisation?

These PETA people seem to want to give more "rights" to the animals than they are willing to give to other humans.

I don't know about that, but as I see it, animals have just as much right to be here as other life. But we are in the process of taking All and Everything for ourselves, humans alone. What gives us the right to do that? Are we so fantasic creatures? Are you going by bible, which says that god gave us all the earth and everything in it to do with as we please? If you do not believe in god, who gave us the right?

They want to empty out the zoos, despite the fact that this would virtually guarantee the extinction of who knows how many species.

How about stopping either putting them in cages, or ruining their habitats?

Or should we, perhaps, tear down our cities and suburbs and give the land back to the animals? After all, they were here first. They have the "right" to their own land.

Yes, they do, just like the American natives. How about we make a reasonable compromise, whereby we stop ruining more land and start being resposible for domestic animals?

Or do you feel that we have a right to go on till all animals are extinct, and there isn't a blade of grass on all the planet?

[Thorne]

What a lovely idea! Why don't you start an organisation?

Probably because I don't really LIKE vegetables. Except maybe in a nice stew or soup.

I don't know about that, but as I see it, animals have just as much right to be here as other life.

Does the lion violates the rights of the gazelle when he eats it? Is the crocodile who eats a swimmer violating someones rights? I don't think so! They are doing what they are supposed to do, eating whatever they can catch. Just as humans do.

But we are in the process of taking All and Everything for ourselves, humans alone. What gives us the right to do that?

Survival of the species, one of the strongest evolutionary traits there are.

Are you going by bible, which says that god gave us all the earth and everything in it to do with as we please? If you do not believe in god, who gave us the right?

Evolution gives us the right. But with it, as you noted, comes responsibility. We won't survive for long, at least not as a civilization, if we destroy the ecosystem we depend upon for life.

How about stopping either putting them in cages, or ruining their habitats?

Sure, works for me. Why don't you start an organization?

Yes, they do, just like the American natives. How about we make a reasonable compromise, whereby we stop ruining more land and start being resposible for domestic animals?

I can go along with that. To a point. Just come up with a way to grow enough food to feed the billions of people already here without taking habitat from other species. After all, people have a right to eat.

Or do you feel that we have a right to go on till all animals are extinct, and there isn't a blade of grass on all the planet?

Nope. We have an obligation to ourselves NOT to do that. Because once that happens WE'LL become extinct. Nature's a bitch that way.