Time, death and the universe

[IAN 2411]

As soon as you say, "I have to believe", you've stepped away from reality. What we believe may have absolutely nothing to do with how things are. People WANT to believe there's a reason for their existence, a reason that's bigger than themselves. Unfortunately, there's nothing to show that such a belief is true. Einstein was a great mind, no question. He advanced our knowledge of the universe immensely. That doesn't make him any better or worse as far as the universe is concerned. And it doesn't mean that we all have that kind of potential.

I have to believe that the mind and thought are there for a reason and because it is an essence it will live until it finds a young host to manipulate.

Okay, try this, we know that there are possibly things programmed in the brain at birth, IE: -breathe or die the same with all animals I would think. At that moment the brain is kick started into life with a slap on the ass, or I think these days a blast of clean air, but it is fully functioning and running. Are you trying to tell me that we are born with a thinking mind and it’s laying dormant. When a child starts to say words like dad, mum, that is not thought it is copying. When a child starts to put words together like, I want food, that is thought and the mind starting to work. We have no idea why or how that takes place, there are theories but not all theories are fact. Theories are just someone else’s thoughts, and yes some of the obvious are realised as fact. I have yet to hear a theory about how the mind and thought generate or what kick starts that.

My quote [I have to believe]. My belief is my theory, and it will remain a theory until proved fact or fiction. Fact; is the accumulation of several theories of the same content being proved correct after repeated experiments.

There are billions of stars in our galaxy, and we are just starting to find out that many of them have planets. There could be thousands, even millions, of life-bearing planets in our galaxy alone. And there are billions of galaxies out there! To believe that all of this was made just to achieve us is the ultimate egoism. Humanity is a minor waypoint in the long process of evolution, and one day we will be as extinct as the dinosaurs. But the universe doesn't care. When we are gone, the universe will not miss us.

No, you misunderstand me; I agree that the universe never evolved just to produce man or beast. Evolution will eventually take over and the human race as we know it now will disappear. There will be an intelligence of sort on earth unless man destroys himself. I was merely pointing out that with each birth the amount of learning and information stored in the brain is greater, and the question I asked was what is the point if we die and that thought and knowledge is wasted? Yes i agree that what we write down is passed on, or rather some of it that complies with the thinking of the minority of would be geniuses'.

When we are gone, the universe will not miss us.

That is your belief, or is that fact and proved to be true?

Be well IAN 2411

[Thorne]

We have no idea why or how that takes place, there are theories but not all theories are fact.

If you want to be scientific about it, then there are many hypotheses about it, but none of them have accumulated enough evidence to actually qualify as a theory. Any scientific theory has been tested and tested and tested again until it has become the next best thing to fact. But scientists know that it would only take one new piece of evidence to overturn their theory, so they do not claim it to be fact.

There are many different hypotheses about how the mind works, but no really definitive theories as yet. That does not make it all right to just insert any wishful thinking you want and claim it to be just as valid as any other hypothesis. You have to have data, evidence, that what you are saying is likely. So far, I've not heard of any that supports the continuation of the mind after death.

My quote [I have to believe]. My belief is my theory, and it will remain a theory until proved fact or fiction.

Unless you can provide evidence for it, it must remain at best an unproven hypothesis, at worst a fiction.

Fact; is the accumulation of several theories of the same content being proved correct after repeated experiments.

Sorry, no. A fact is an observed phenomenon, recordable and measurable by independent sources. A fact is a data point which is used to determine the validity (or not) of an hypothesis. When an hypothesis accounts for ALL of the facts, and predicts new facts previously not known, only then does it graduate to the level of theory. One of the beauties of Newton's Theory of Gravity, for example, was that it accounted for all of the known motions of the planets, and was used to determine the existence of Neptune before it was actually observed. One of the beauties of Einstein's Theory of Relativity is that it exactly explained the one fact which, it was found, Newton's theory could NOT explain: the advance of Mercury's perihelion.

I was merely pointing out that with each birth the amount of learning and information stored in the brain is greater, and the question I asked was what is the point if we die and that thought and knowledge is wasted?

I don't understand this point. How do you mean, the stored information is greater? As near as I can find, when we are born we all have about the same information stored, and much of that is autonomic reflexes, things which are 'hard-wired' to keep us alive. Yes, there is more and more information that is available, after we are born, to fill up our brains, but we don't generally accumulate all of that information. A 17th century man, for example, would likely know how to care for a horse, how to hunt for food, how to do a myriad of things that the average man no longer does. We don't, as a rule, learn all of that information. We learn how to put gas in our cars, where to find the grocery stores, and the myriad of things we need to know to function in our world. Sure, some people will learn archaic skills, by choice. But none of that knowledge is present when we are born. And you still ask the question, "What is the point?" without showing any reason why there SHOULD be a point, other than your wishes.

That is your belief, or is that fact and proved to be true?

Let's call it an observation, based on the lack of any evidence for the universe, as an entity, having any kind of demonstrable intelligence. There's just no evidence that the death of any individual, or group, seems to have any measurable effect on the universe as a whole.