Bush's Place in History.

[wmrs2]

Yes we are I agree let's all live together as 1

Great! All Bush haters, all Rush haters, all liberal press haters, all broad minded Rep. and Dems, we finally love each other. I hope this last but, the question is, who will be first among us to break the unity. Not me. Fight the temptation, please.

[mkemse]

Now see! Just when we were getting off to such a good start, you start with your Guts theory. You need to try harder than this.

It is just my opinion, which i am intitled you , some may no like it, by my Freedom of speach allows me to sat that

[DuncanONeil]

"This is the Definition Of a Communist and Socialism"

so⋅cial⋅ism
   /ˈsoʊʃəˌlɪzəm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [soh-shuh-liz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun
1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
2. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.

com⋅mu⋅nism
   /ˈkɒmyəˌnɪzəm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [kom-yuh-niz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun
1. a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state.
2. (often initial capital letter) a system of social organization in which all economic and social activity is controlled by a totalitarian state dominated by a single and self-perpetuating political party.

While there are similarities there are significant differences in these two systems!

[DuncanONeil]

"I believe the less Goverment control on everything the better we all are, can't be any clear then that "

That being the case how them would you describe yourself?

[DuncanONeil]

"I have no reason NOT to remain a Democrt"

But your stated belief system does not agree with that of the Democrat party!
"I believe the less Goverment control on everything the better we all are, can't be any clear then that "

[DuncanONeil]

"my issue with him is we had rason to go into Iraq"

The whole world had reason to go into Iraq. The person at fault for that was Mr Hussain.

[DuncanONeil]

"I COULD say, with the same amount of support that you display, (i.e. your opinions) that the Republican Party is the party of Fascists and Nazis."

fas⋅cism
   /ˈfæʃɪzəm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [fash-iz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun
1. (sometimes initial capital letter) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.
2. (sometimes initial capital letter) the philosophy, principles, or methods of fascism.

Nazi = National Socialist German Workers' party

Seems that the Nazis were in fact Socialist as were the Fascists, except that they have a dicator rather than a ruling party.

[DuncanONeil]

"(A)ll the people who helped to make mistakes and never take any responsibility. Cowards and whiners all."

You mean like Teddy Kennedy?

[DuncanONeil]

And?

[DuncanONeil]

"Ok never read of hear about a Delclaration War Declared"

THREATS AND RESPONSES: THE VOTE; CONGRESS AUTHORIZES BUSH TO USE FORCE AGAINST IRAQ, CREATING A BROAD MANDATE
By ALISON MITCHELL and CARL HULSE
Published: Friday, October 11, 2002
New York Times

The Senate voted overwhelmingly early this morning to authorize President Bush to use force against Iraq, joining with the House in giving him a broad mandate to act against Saddam Hussein.

[DuncanONeil]

"als I postes earlier in this thread the Definition of Communism as you asked,"

I did not ask!

[DuncanONeil]

From what I have witnessed it seems the Republicans have their own messiah complex. They worship Limbaugh. He who will not brook any dissenting opinions. He who is so UnAmerican that he wants the country to fail, the President to fail.

Again you are incorrect. There is no worship of Limbaugh among his listeners. Being correct, succinct, and entertaining does not make one a messiah. To revere a person as a messiah requires a certain amount of faith. A faith that overlooks anything that could lessen the reverence for the figure.

Unlike many main stream outlets dissension is welcomed by Limbaugh. But that does not mean that he will not attempt to show that person where they may be mistaken. In fact Limbaugh will move a self described liberal to the head of the queue.

I have a question, have you spent any time listening to the Limbaugh show? Or are you relying on reports of what he has said? Be careful with the answer, there may be a test.

[DuncanONeil]

Except they are not undecided! They decided months, years, decades ago that they were Republicans or Democrats and they will fight tooth and nail against anyone who tries to gainsay them. Facts mean nothing, statistics mean nothing, legality or illegality mean nothing. "If he's in my Party, he's right!"

Don't understand how you can say that. Each party clearly refers to their "base" that part of the electorate will vote that party, just like Libertarians vote Libertarian. The election revolves around those in the camp of "undecided" "In an election, there are "certain" or "lock" votes - voters who are solidly behind or partisan to a particular candidate and will not consider changing their minds whatever the opposition says.

Swing voters are undecided about how they will vote. They are sometimes referred to as undecideds or undecided voters, but floating voter is now the more common term used for this kind of voter.

In the United States, they may be dissatisfied Republicans or Democrats who are open to the idea of voting for other parties, or they could be people who have never had a strong affiliation with any political party, and will vote depending on certain things that influence them - e.g. healthcare, benefits, election campaign etc.

Some might be people who have never exercised their right to vote before, such as those just reaching voting age.

Because the votes of swing voters are considered to be "up for grabs", candidates direct a fair proportion of campaign effort towards them, although they must also be concerned with voter turnout among their political base."

"updated 11:06 a.m. CT, Wed., Sept. 24, 2008

WASHINGTON - Nearly a fifth of U.S. voters remain undecided about presidential candidates Barack Obama and John McCain, still unsure which man can put out the fire raging through the American financial marketplace and save them from an economic meltdown."

It is clear that this block of voters exists and is the focus of political campaigns.

[DuncanONeil]

"Rush as said on his radio show countless time nothing ould make him happier thenl and to have the Obama Admistration fail completey so America can elect a REAL President, Ann Coulter supported him on this"

I have reason to believe that you are pulling your data from, at best, secondary sources.

[DuncanONeil]

"Once we start fighting like before the election it can do no good for the country."

But you think random throwing of vast sums of money in all kinds of random directions IS good for the country?

[DuncanONeil]

I just located that apology which to me means the Rush LImbough runs the RNC not Steele, just my opinion but limbough also said he would rather commit Hari Kari then Run a Party in the sad shape the RNC is in right now, he woule stop being a Repubican if he was approached about the RNC
But I did see Micheal Stelles apology

Interesting! You say the apology is because Limbaugh runs the RNC. yet admit that he has said he would have nothing to do with the RNC. Yet you still believe that "Micheal Stelles apology" is proof to the contrary. Verrrrry interesting!

[DuncanONeil]

Well put. But don't just condemn the "liberal press"; include the conservative media (Rush, et al) in your statement.

It's time to stop being liberal or conservative, Republican or Democrat. It's time to start being Americans! Brothers and sisters united in defense of our country and our way of life. Find common ground in the middle of our belief systems and work from there. We are all seeking the same goals! Don't let corrupt politicians, over-paid industrialists, or loud-mouthed talk show hosts steal our heritage from us! Question everything, don't take anyone's word, search out the FACTS. Everyone in this forum (I presume) has a connection to the Internet. USE that to learn the truth, not just the propaganda.

Some of what you said bothers me a very basic level, but I will let that slide.
I have found a number of people across various forums that even when presented with factual information simply refuse to consider that information. How would you propose to get them to consider the information?

[DuncanONeil]

the biggest issue with the RNC is nobody in the Hieracxhy of the GOP has the GUTS to stand up to Rush Limbough

Close but no cigar. No one in the hierarchy of the RNC have the guts to stand up, period!

[DuncanONeil]

"he makes money off your anger and is motivated to say more to incite you."

Limbaugh does not make money off anyone's anger, he makes it by people listening.

[Belgarold]

Again you are incorrect. There is no worship of Limbaugh among his listeners. Being correct, succinct, and entertaining does not make one a messiah. To revere a person as a messiah requires a certain amount of faith. A faith that overlooks anything that could lessen the reverence for the figure.

Unlike many main stream outlets dissension is welcomed by Limbaugh. But that does not mean that he will not attempt to show that person where they may be mistaken. In fact Limbaugh will move a self described liberal to the head of the queue.

I have a question, have you spent any time listening to the Limbaugh show? Or are you relying on reports of what he has said? Be careful with the answer, there may be a test.

As a matter of fact I have. I go by the adage "know your enemy." I listen to O'Reilly spin as well. Limbaugh, to gain ratings, is angry, spewing lies and half-truths, racism, inciting violence. He is a hate-monger and power-hungry opportunist.

Do YOU listen to anyone but Fox News or the conservative controlled media?

And I am still waiting for any real facts that support your position. THAT is my test.

[Thorne]

I have found a number of people across various forums that even when presented with factual information simply refuse to consider that information. How would you propose to get them to consider the information?

That doesn't surprise me at all. As I said in an earlier post, "Except they are not undecided! They decided months, years, decades ago that they were Republicans or Democrats and they will fight tooth and nail against anyone who tries to gainsay them. Facts mean nothing, statistics mean nothing, legality or illegality mean nothing."

There is absolutely nothing you can do or say to change the minds of this type of fanatic. And they exist everywhere, in every political party, in every religion, in every country. There is always, and will always be, a certain type of person who knows beyond any doubt that his point of view is the only right one. Beating him over the head with the truth or with facts only makes him condemn you for your brutality. This is the kind of person who will don a white sheet and kidnap, torture and kill innocent people simply because of their color. This is the kind of person who will kill dozens of innocent people simply because they happen to work at an abortion clinic. This is the kind of person who flies planes loaded with civilians into buildings. Whether you label them as terrorists, fanatics, patriots or "dittoheads," their hatred and anger towards anything which opposes them marks them as ignorant and dangerous.

[wmrs2]

"Once we start fighting like before the election it can do no good for the country."

But you think random throwing of vast sums of money in all kinds of random directions IS good for the country?

Hell no! Continue please, you are doing great.

[wmrs2]

"he makes money off your anger and is motivated to say more to incite you."

Limbaugh does not make money off anyone's anger, he makes it by people listening.

I know, you are correct. I was trying to point out that being angry over truthful statements does not help get the opposing idea across. Most people who criticize Rush never listen to him. I may be a little sadistic here,but it gives me rush (pun intended) when liberals flip their lid over Rush.

[wmrs2]

That doesn't surprise me at all. As I said in an earlier post, "Except they are not undecided! They decided months, years, decades ago that they were Republicans or Democrats and they will fight tooth and nail against anyone who tries to gainsay them. Facts mean nothing, statistics mean nothing, legality or illegality mean nothing."

There is absolutely nothing you can do or say to change the minds of this type of fanatic. And they exist everywhere, in every political party, in every religion, in every country. There is always, and will always be, a certain type of person who knows beyond any doubt that his point of view is the only right one. Beating him over the head with the truth or with facts only makes him condemn you for your brutality. This is the kind of person who will don a white sheet and kidnap, torture and kill innocent people simply because of their color. This is the kind of person who will kill dozens of innocent people simply because they happen to work at an abortion clinic. This is the kind of person who flies planes loaded with civilians into buildings. Whether you label them as terrorists, fanatics, patriots or "dittoheads," their hatred and anger towards anything which opposes them marks them as ignorant and dangerous.

Brother, I am glad that we are not like that. People who act like they know what they believe should be shot. I am glad to get that off my chest. That's what Rush does too when he points out dittoheads; he agrees with us. He does not tolerate people who think they know what they believe either.

[wmrs2]

That doesn't surprise me at all. As I said in an earlier post, "Except they are not undecided! They decided months, years, decades ago that they were Republicans or Democrats and they will fight tooth and nail against anyone who tries to gainsay them. Facts mean nothing, statistics mean nothing, legality or illegality mean nothing."

There is absolutely nothing you can do or say to change the minds of this type of fanatic. And they exist everywhere, in every political party, in every religion, in every country. There is always, and will always be, a certain type of person who knows beyond any doubt that his point of view is the only right one. Beating him over the head with the truth or with facts only makes him condemn you for your brutality. This is the kind of person who will don a white sheet and kidnap, torture and kill innocent people simply because of their color. This is the kind of person who will kill dozens of innocent people simply because they happen to work at an abortion clinic. This is the kind of person who flies planes loaded with civilians into buildings. Whether you label them as terrorists, fanatics, patriots or "dittoheads," their hatred and anger towards anything which opposes them marks them as ignorant and dangerous.

Pardon me please but I just can not let this go. You don't really think that Rush would done a white sheet, kidnap, torture and kill innocent people do you? You are exaggerating to make a point, are you not? I don't see a mass of conservatives or liberals, who are firmly trenched in their beliefs flying plains into anything. It is just human nature, a carnal nature, to dislike people who disagree with us and I don,t like those people who are enlightened like us either. I just think God that I am not like other men. The thing that bothers me is that other men think God that I am not like them either. I am not going to get upset about it. What do those dumb bastards know anyway?

[Belgarold]

Rush would do ANYTHING that would get him more ratings. And I think the point is, he incites fanatics. And with recent events, has delusions of grandeur. An analogy would be the cowardly leaders of groups like Al Quaida. He incites those crazy fanatical people to don a white sheet, and torture and kill innocent people, if it would further his aims. Just like Al Quaida convinces crazy fanatical people to blow themselves up for their sick aims.

I swear, this messiah complex is SO interesting.

In the fevered state of our country, no good can ever result from any attempt to set one of these fiery zealots to rights, either in fact or principle. They are determined as to the facts they will believe, and the opinions on which they will act. Get by them, therefore, as you would by an angry bull; it is not for a man of sense to dispute the road with such an animal.
Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826) Third president of the United States.

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
Winston Churchill (1874-1965) British politician.

[Thorne]

Brother, I am glad that we are not like that. People who act like they know what they believe should be shot. I am glad to get that off my chest. That's what Rush does too when he points out dittoheads; he agrees with us. He does not tolerate people who think they know what they believe either.

I didn't say that! I said that these people think their beliefs are the ONLY truth.

[Thorne]

Pardon me please but I just can not let this go. You don't really think that Rush would done a white sheet, kidnap, torture and kill innocent people do you?

No! Absolutely not! I was talking about some of the KINDS of people who will take every word that Rush, and others like him, says as gospel.

I haven't listened to him in years, but when I did I found him to be dangerously seductive. His "facts" always seemed self-evident, and his opinions sounded logical, especially when delivered in that enthusiastic, pompous rhetoric of his. But when I checked those "facts" independently (which is something I always felt he would not want me to do) I found them to be subtly different from what he claimed. He didn't lie, precisely. It wasn't blatant. But he always added that little twist, or neglected that one word or phrase, which seemed to change the meaning of what he was ranting about.

But the kinds of people I was talking about, the fanatics, the white sheet crowd, won't bother to check the facts. If what he says falls in line with what they already want to believe it will reinforce those beliefs.

And no, I don't think that all Rush's followers are this kind of person. It's only a small minority, a few fanatics. But they are the most dangerous, and he knows perfectly well that they are out there, and that they listen to him religiously.

[wmrs2]

Rush would do ANYTHING that would get him more ratings. And I think the point is, he incites fanatics. And with recent events, has delusions of grandeur. An analogy would be the cowardly leaders of groups like Al Quaida. He incites those crazy fanatical people to don a white sheet, and torture and kill innocent people, if it would further his aims. Just like Al Quaida convinces crazy fanatical people to blow themselves up for their sick aims.

I swear, this messiah complex is SO interesting.

In the fevered state of our country, no good can ever result from any attempt to set one of these fiery zealots to rights, either in fact or principle. They are determined as to the facts they will believe, and the opinions on which they will act. Get by them, therefore, as you would by an angry bull; it is not for a man of sense to dispute the road with such an animal.
Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826) Third president of the United States.

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
Winston Churchill (1874-1965) British politician.

Brother, I hope you will re-read what you just said. Will your criticism of Bush never end? Who do you think you are inciting with your continual abuse of President Bush? Thomas Jefferson knew what he was talking about. I wish you would listen to him. Change the subject!

[wmrs2]

No! Absolutely not! I was talking about some of the KINDS of people who will take every word that Rush, and others like him, says as gospel.

I haven't listened to him in years, but when I did I found him to be dangerously seductive. His "facts" always seemed self-evident, and his opinions sounded logical, especially when delivered in that enthusiastic, pompous rhetoric of his. But when I checked those "facts" independently (which is something I always felt he would not want me to do) I found them to be subtly different from what he claimed. He didn't lie, precisely. It wasn't blatant. But he always added that little twist, or neglected that one word or phrase, which seemed to change the meaning of what he was ranting about.

But the kinds of people I was talking about, the fanatics, the white sheet crowd, won't bother to check the facts. If what he says falls in line with what they already want to believe it will reinforce those beliefs.

And no, I don't think that all Rush's followers are this kind of person. It's only a small minority, a few fanatics. But they are the most dangerous, and he knows perfectly well that they are out there, and that they listen to him religiously.

I am pleased with your response to my sarcasm. You are indeed a good sport. The way you feel about Rush is the same way I feel about most of the liberal commentators. I lean more to the right than the left politically, although I like to think I am broad minded. There are not too many conservative commentators but Rush is the leader. He has to take a lot of guff for his leadership.But, he does make people think and question, especially the liberals.

The liberals do not have a Rush like person. I always thought the reason they did not have a Rush person was that they did not want people to think and ask too many questions. Liberals, I think have a difficult time defending their positions on most things. They seem to borrow the Marxing concept that it is ok to say anything no matter if its the truth or not as long as it serves their greater good. To them truth is relative and to Rush it is absolute.That is the difference between the two positions. Those who study philosophy know this is true.
Thanks for being a good sport.
wmrs2