how do you stop being the top from the bottom to a new dom

[pandora's_folly]

hi,i am a very recent submissive who wishes to become a slave married to my Sir and through rough times i have realised what i am and what i strive to be which is a slave.My husband is very new to the dom/master side of things and i have found that i have had to request even tell him how and why i need things to go to aid him in him making me more submissive to him.I am very hard work and when i know he is capable of dominating me in the way i should be and want to be i will be all he will ever need and all he will ever wish for.That said i am impatient and he is going in the right direction but i feel i am doing the work for him(*which if he told me to i would do without hesitation*)but he isn't...please do not think i am being disrespectfull to my Sir because i am free to ask my questions as we are both learning.

So the question stands...how do you stop topping from the bottom.

sorry if it is the wrong thread i am new to this site and exploring all it has to offer..many thanks for any help you offer.
..P..

[denuseri]

Dear Pandora

Cultivate patience.

Especially since he is new, he will perhaps be hesitant and unsure of many things. Be a help to him as opposed to a burden. It will take time to come into balance and harmony with each other and for a little while at least if not indefinitly (if your relationship blossoms in such a fashion) make your needs subordinate to his own in this regard, especially considering he will be learning his craft for some time just as it took time for you to learn your own. It will take lots of patience and hard work for both of you.

A safe word can perhaps be introduced to aide him for a little bit (never to be used as crutch or a way of topping him) until such time as he becomes more confident but as a saftey tool to help reassure him that he isnt harming you.

Sit down with him and have an open and honest conversation with him.

Perhaps with a notepad for both of you to take notes or to aide your memory, outline your desires and the direction you wish to see your relationship go and encourage him to do the same and when you have your feedback sessions (which in my experience should not ever take place imedieately after a session but the day after) you can compare and work together as a team.

Provide him with information (links to web sites or threads you think may aide him etc as well as books and such) without expressing your own personal in a manner that will overshadow such information in an objective manner and let him decide what will or will not be appropriate to do or not do with said information. (You could even ask him to read the responces you will get here in the forums...in fact I highly recomend he make his own account here as well.)

Eventually once his confidence increases you will perhaps find that he is rising to the task with more ardor and the feeling that you are the one directing things will naturally subside as he takes his rightful place over you. He will of course have his own desires and needs to be fufiled and vanila society hasn't exactly encouraged him to act upon such things...but you can.

The exchange of knowledge should never be considered "topping from the bottom" (one must divorce from themselves that concept for it will fester like a thorn in one's side) you his willing experienced submissive hold in your hands the keys to seeing him develop into a wonderful dominant and will allways be his best rescource. Encourage him to seek what information that will aide him where ever he can find it. What is found to be useful for the two of you can be retained and the rest discarded.

My Owner is fond of saying that his best teachers in the art of holding wise dominion have always been the very submissives at his feet.

One day when the tree the two of you have planted in the garden of your relationship has grown stronger and bore fruit perhaps he will be able to say the same.

I truely hope that you will have a long and mutually fufiling relationship together.

Please feel free to inquire if ever eaither of you find yourselves in need of assistance.

Respectfully

A sister in submission.

denuseri

[pandora's_folly]

Thankyou Denuseri,you're words of encouragement and wealth of information has and will aid Sir and i to move further along in our journey.Communication is definatley key as i have found.i have been sending him links and writing a journal and even emailing him if something is playing on my mind,i find speaking out loud only leads to me being unclear and writing gives me the time to really think about what i have to say and for Sir to be able to read and digest at his leisure.

We do have safe words and at the beginning i used them so Sir would know that i wouldn't just let him hurt me and for himself to know that as he is extremley strong and could get carried away that when the words were spoken it was over or to change direction.I find the more confident he is the less i use them.

The idea of sitting together and having a deep discussion i had already decided to ask Sir for us to have at the weekend but your notepad idea is a very good one as i have a terrible memory..lol

I must have misinformed you in the way i wrote but i have very little experience i am learning everyday about myself and i feel i am at my happiest when i show my submission,i just know in my heart who i am,what i am and where i want to be.Never have i smiled so much.

Thankyou whole heartedly for your kind words and have already noticed by your comments on other threads that you are very knowledgable.

Pandora.x

[skullcowboy]

I just wanted to offer my suggestions to you, as I am in a simillar situation as your Sir. My sub is very knowledgable and experienced in this lifestyle, and I have but a few months of genuine experience. She saw tremendous potential in me, due to my personality and the way I carry myself, but she knew that I lacked a lot of knowledge when it came to this lifestyle.

A lot of denuseri's suggestions are what my sub did for me, and they were invaluable. Encouragement from her and her constantly pushing me to pursue my desires with no regret or remorse about how it might effect her were a lot of what allowed me to fully begin growing and experimenting with confindence. She would always tell me not too worry, that no matter how bad I thought it might be, she always had our safe word if things went too far. That alone is a huge comfort for me, knowing that if something goes too far for her that she can use the safe word to let me know that we need to stop.

Another thing that my sub did for me was to use my love of reading to suggest fictional books for me to read. After I finished reading them she would ask me what parts I really enjoyed and once I told her she would simply reply with a smile, "If it pleases you, try it." Once I had begun to form my own desires she recommend a lot of websites and information books for me to read, that way I had understanding of the principles and guidelines for what I was doing.

I know she grew frustrated with me at several points throughout my learning (and I'm still constantly learning how to be better for myself and for her), but she had faith in me and that faith in me allowed me to let go and build confidence in what I wanted and what I was doing. I still have a lot of learning to do and she still offers me suggestions here and there, but I'm gradually getting there and it's making us both happier.

Like denuseri said, you just need to try and be patient with him. As frustrating as it might be for you, imagine how frustrating and scary it might be for him. Not only does he have to unlearn much of what society has taught him is unacceptable, but he also has a learn an entirely new behavior and deal with the fear of hurting you (which was a big issue for me starting out). Have faith in him and continue to be encouraging and I'm sure he'll become an even better Sir than you had hoped.

Hope this helps.

-Skull C.-

p.s. If you are interested, I will ask my sub to get into contact with you and tell you how she got through dealing with the pain in the ass that is me

[pandora's_folly]

-Skull C.-

Thanyou your insight is very helpfull.Things have moved on a little he is leaning more towards his own desires and well took my breath away..haha not literally yet..lol.

I find myself taking a step back and although i will still be using my journal and links to information and literature and of course this thread, i don't feel like i am having to be so forward with him.

I am certain he will lose his way again as will i as we are both learning but i shall be there to encourage him as he will be there to remind me of my place.

I get where you were coming from in the relation to hurting your sub as Sir was very worried about hurting me and like you say the safe word helps and again yes society has it's own ways of teaching us the rights and wrongs in life but i can assure you Sir is slowly finding his more sadistic side and enjoying it to *blushes*

It has been great to hear from both sides of the coin and thankyou for your offer of assistance from your sub as all information i can gather to help us is greatly appreciated also new friends welcome to.

[fetishdj]

There are some quite deeply ingrained responses which stop us from hurting people we love. This is the main reason why many inexperienced Doms feel nervous about inflicting it. There are also more recent social mores about who is allowed to be in charge in the household which can inhibit Doms. These are both difficult to overcome. I remember the first time I was asked to spank a woman and I could not do it and when I did do it I did it nervously and not very hard.

I agree with all the advice above. You need to have this long and frank talk. More to the point, you need to keep having these long and frank talks all through the relationship. These talks need to be 'outside roles' which means you are not a sub/slave and he is not a Dom, even if you are 24/7. This is because it allows you as the sub a chance to speak your mind and him as a Dom to get honest feedback to what he is doing (i.e. not 'Of course I enjoyed it, Master, you are wonderful' but 'I enjoyed it but I think I would prefer more/less next time and I don't think I can take much more than 2 minutes of those nipple clamps at the moment. Oh, and I thought the left handcuff seemed a little stiff when you slipped it on'). This way you are always evaluating and reassessing your needs and responses and so your relationship develops rather than becoming stagnant.

There is a very fine line between 'Topping from the bottom' and not doing so. A lot of the time this is based on personal preferences of the Dom and sub involved. However, in general, I would say that giving honest feedback and pointing out things you like the Dom could do to you is not Topping from the bottom (in most cases). In this case you are merely giving the Dom appropriate information about you and your preferences. He has no obligation to use this information (though he would be foolish to do so, especially if there were a safety issue you were informing him of), he could ignore your suggestions and do something else entirely. Your involvement is therefore not an authoritative one but an advisory role - he still maintains ultimate executive power in the relationship. If, on the other hand, you were telling him *during* a session that you want him to do *this* to you *now* in *this* particular way then you are almost certainly in Topping from the bottom territory.

[pandora's_folly]

to fetishdj and all on this thread.

A little more insight to our relationship as to why i asked the question in the first place..My husband and i were in a huge rutt to the point of splitting,i had been the dominant force in our relationship and he had been the submissive one..not sexually or any other interesting way but day to day,i hated it and totally lost my sex drive.I have a very old fashioned view that a man should be in charge of the household of the bills and how the dynamincs of the relationship between man and wife work but the more he let me get away with the more i did get away with to the point that i lost my purpose and my way and he sank deeper into submission.i forgot who i really was and who i really wanted to be.So you see the reason for my question was that i don't want to be left to get away with things as before and although i have to retrain my way of thinking as well as he does the basics are still there for me which is my old fashioned streak.

As in the actual scenes and some of day to day when we are alone or around people that don't know us i am always respectfull and always ask nicely ...and beg nicely to..lol...but i know that ultimatley whatever it is i want the decision is his to take not mine and i do feel a certain warm fuzzy feeling when he does.discussions are happening but for me not enough but that is only because i have a huge problem with opening up so mostly i write my feelings down or blurt it out for him to get me to speak.

I had been sending him information and links with little footnotes saying how i felt about them and with the 'maybe we could' or 'if you wish to we could try' ...i saw it as topping from the bottom but realise i was actual just being usuful.I really do not wish to fall back on my old ways so i shall be coming back to this from time to time to see just how far forward or how far back along our journey we have come.

Oooops i'm so in trouble he remembered i had'nt written my journal or kissed him when he came home over the weekend.......ouchie.. huge smiles and has a shiver down my spine...

Thankyou all...big hugs

[symphony]

Hello, I am also in the same situation as you, and the whole topping from the bottom concept is my constant companion! It can be hard to find the right way to say things, which has led me to a few things,

Saying things the wrong way, which tends to hurt self confidence (yours and his)
Not saying anything, which stops you both learning and growing together.

Bit of a catch 22 isn't it! It can take a long time to realise just how honest you both have to be with each other, we have been at it for 5 years and we still aren’t there. But from my own experience I can tell you that compliments and positive statements go a long way. If you want to be spanked more than saying that you loved it so much when he did it last time then that is a sure way to get him to do it again lol. If it wasn't hard enough - then don't say oh you did it wrong straight after the event, try saying that you love that tingle that you get when you are spanked and you would like to feel it more.

Is that topping from the bottom? Maybe so, but who cares?! Seriously, does he care, or are you just worrying about it because you read it somewhere? I used to, and still do occasionally, but how else are you supposed to improve each other’s confidence? Or get to where you both want to be? I haven’t found a way yet, because if he is very new then if you leave it all to him, give him no feedback because you don't want to feel like you’re telling him what to do, then he might be so nervous that he is afraid to try that new thing that’s been on his mind for ages.

But I am now at the point that I don't have to do that as much, because now he knows what works for me and what doesn’t and I know that about him, it took a while, and I messed up a few times, but we got there. Patience is the key!!(Yeah I know that sucks but its true!)

Good luck and if you want to chat then feel free.

[pandora's_folly]

hi symphony,i worry about the topping from the bottom as i can be so impatient and eager to mover forward with the added pain in the butt of being too strong willed and not in a good way,he doesnt care no but thats just his way and to be very honest thats partly my own doing.the old saying give her an inch she will take a mile ok tweaked a little..lol....but with me give me an inch and i will take the m1.not good ever as it takes me right back to a place i never want to be again and thats in control.i am however being open,hones and finding a happy medium so far..fingers crossed..if you want to chat sometime add me as a friend,not quite sure how to do that yet as im new to this and its fogging my brain..lol