Submissive troubles

This is just a curiosity. I have a sub, online only, we talk (daily practicaly) and we aren't together in any other sense. In anycase, the point of this is. she talks as though she wants a moderately serious Dom (a sacred bond she calls it), which is what I hope for, then she wont speak with me, or will suddenly stop, she generaly has a...good...reason for it, then we will talk, and she will fall over herself (practicaly) with listening to what I tell her to. It is a bad cycle I find myself in. I love her as my sub, but sometimes...she ignores me persay, and this is aggrivating. I don't know what to do about her. In essence how should I, get her under control, or what in general should I do about her?

Could you define "she won't speak with me"? Is it because she's not available (work, family, other commitments, etc) which is fair enough, or is she free to talk (as far as you know) but refuses? How long do the silent periods last and how frequent are they? Does she suffer from depression or PMT? I don't want to speak to ANYONE for a couple of days before my period and it's probably best for humanity that I don't!!

Have you told her that her silences are unacceptable? Perhaps it's her way of getting your attention or to upset your equilibrium - both of which (IMHO) require correction.

A very few days after meeting my Master He instructed me to get a new phone which must be on and with me at all times, only He has the number and this works very well in making sure there is a constant line of communication. Would this work for you?

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Originally Posted by Mizar

This is just a curiosity. I have a sub, online only, we talk (daily practicaly) and we aren't together in any other sense. In anycase, the point of this is. she talks as though she wants a moderately serious Dom (a sacred bond she calls it), which is what I hope for, then she wont speak with me, or will suddenly stop, she generaly has a...good...reason for it, then we will talk, and she will fall over herself (practicaly) with listening to what I tell her to. It is a bad cycle I find myself in. I love her as my sub, but sometimes...she ignores me persay, and this is aggrivating. I don't know what to do about her. In essence how should I, get her under control, or what in general should I do about her?

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i know exactly what this feels like. i must be honest when i reply, even if it might not be something you want to hear. i know people get busy in their daily lives...we all do. but whatever is going on, save something dreadful like a family emergency, will not keep me from anyone i want to be with. i had begun a new connection with someone who wanted to be my Master, and had met him many times. i won't go into the details, as i already posted about it in another thread. what i will say is that from the first moment we met, he was always available...even on his busiest days, he would connect with me, either through text messaging or emails, chat or phone calls. i felt funny one time since he had spent three hours talking to me, would it be a burden on his work and he said that was one good thing about being the boss. one time i had a really busy morning and something came up that required me to be across town, and it got to be around noon, and he texted me, twice, asking me if everything was ok. i pulled over on my way to my destination and left him a voice mail, telling him i was ok and i would contact him as soon as i got home, and he texted me right back, thanking me etc.

right before Halloween, we met as usual, (for what later turned out to be the last time) and that night he seemed preoccupied and i sensed something had changed, even though i hadn't done anything different than i normally did....and the next morning, his tapering off began. where he would text me each morning - nothing. where he would be online waiting for me - nothing. where he would email, telling me he was busy but we would talk soon - nothing.

this went on for a few days, and i would text him a little, and get no reply.

so i emailed him and asked him what was going on - no reply. that is when i said goodbye to him the first time, and of course he emailed me saying he was super busy and he adored me, with no promise to connect soon, whereas before we would plan to be together soon...only days would pass between our meetings, not a whole week.

so i accepted that, and again, the same pattern played itself out, and i emailed him just to sort of tug on his coat tail a little and he emailed me saying he had to see a client and was taking a co-worker with him and would be unavailable for two days in any way, text, email, VM...and when the two days passed - nothing.

so i emaled just to say hello, and a second time - nothing, so i told him once more goodbye, and he replied again how busy he was and that he would be traveling to another state but we would be together when he returned, and that, while there, he would "keep me close" in email and text messages and guess what - nothing. absolute silence.

of course, for me, it was agony, because i was in love with him and any contact from him was paradise, and once again i was disappointed.

so i came to this site and talked to people outside of my situation and even though it was painful i saw myself being the fool, and i didn't like it because i am not one to allow myself to be treated this way by someone. i had only called him univited once, that one time to reassure him that i was ok...but this time, i called him and he answered and he said he had just gotten back into town and we would meet very soon...we talked for like a minute. a precious minute to me, since it had been weeks since i had heard his voice in my ear. then he followed up with another short email saying, rather than monday night, we would meet tuesday, then that didn't work so let' s try wednesday...finally we spoke again on the phone and he said let's meet thursday...so i went out and got this really pretty cami, a black one with a little silver ring on the bodice and prepared myself for our meeting then about an hour before our scheduled meeting time i thought 'hmm, i should check my email before i log off'...and sure enough, there was a terse email from him saying he was super busy and regrettably could not meet that night, but once again, a vague comment about when we would meet, so i emailed him back asking if he could clarify since his response was confusing and once again - nothing. i mean, not even a text message to say we couldn't meet - what if i hadn't read that email? i would have driven over to our designated meeting place and he would not have arrived and there i would have been, waiting and wondering. i never understood his sudden inability to text message, unless of course he had become involved with a co-worker, which would mean she would notice him texting someone not her at the office...he couldn't text me when he was at home because his wife might see.

and so, for a third and final time, i told him goodbye and even went so far as to block him so he couldn't pull me back because i am weak where he is concerned, but my heart doesn't have the stomach for it - for being thwarted again and again, when all i want is him, and to be wondering all the time, your imagination filling in the blanks...for what?

i don't know if her unavailability hurts you or really does just aggravate you...but i will say if i were someone's sub, nothing would keep me from him because that is where i would want to be. i will also say that, before him, i was involved with a vanilla man....just a flirtation...but he got clingy and i started talking to another man and suddenly had no time for him, and he asked me after a few days what was going on and i was honest with him and said i didn't want to continue communicating with him, and he appreciated my honesty.

otherwise the person is just there, waiting...i know what that feels like, and it feels terrible.

this is only my opinion, based on my own experience. but i will leave you with a quote from Baz Luhrman, who says 'never be reckless with anyone's heart, and don't allow someone to be be reckless with your own.'

i honestly wish you all the best.

If she has a good reason I fail to see the problem, unless you need to have the constant interaction. You are unable to fully give her everything due to to geography. She can pause life from time to time to serve you but to place on hold can be an unrealistic idea. But not knowing her circumstances it is a bit difficult to answer.

My take on these conflicts?

Both Sinderella and Mizar came online and voiced their concerns with their significant other. They ultimately know all the circumstances of these relationships and still feel as if something is wrong. I'm sure that they have racked their brains over these issue and can not come up with a logical reason for their significant others behavior.

There is only one thing that can at this point and time be asked to resolve this issue. Can you live with this behavior? are you satisfied?

I've been busy. I've been really busy, getting on and off planes with spotty phone reception in some airport I've never seen in my life, running to get my connection while still managing to get a martini and a cigarette and I can STILL get a message out to about 20 different people.

Sinderella there are plenty of Doms out there who invest the time into you that you need. Look at the OP he *wants* to invest time into a sub. As a Dom I want to invest time into a sub and wont take on one who isn't in the right spot to give me what i need from them.

Mizar. I've been in this lifestyle for 13 years (yes i did have a Dom when i was 14 for those of you doing the math). I only remember romanticizing BDSM as some superior way of being when i was young. Sure there are indeed people who believe in things like a "sacred bond" and there is almost a religious aspect of it for them. I'm not knocking their take on it but she doesn't seem... serious about obtaining that. I would remind her that if she wants some sort of bond then she needs to put into the effort. If you don't like this cycle then break it.

Life is far to short to not be satisfied with your relationships. I want my subs to be there ready for me. I don't find this to much to ask, just some availability so that I can talk to them even if it's just about their day. If that can't comply with that basic idea then they are on their own. I'll be their friends, I'll talk with them, I'll hear them out but I WILL NOT invest my time unless i get the same in return.

How I would straighten this sub out? I'd ignore her as you may notice from some of the posts in the sub forum this is horrible. She will learn that as a sub she needs a Dom as part of some sort of sacred bond or she will realize that either the lifestyle or your flavor of it is not what she wants.

If you want to be official about it, set a time period for the amount of time that you will not be speaking to her, remember it's final. Tell her that she is to write to you x amount of times a day. Have her write emails to you, (don't respond of course). Have no contact with her but make sure that she is thinking of you.

That's just my two cents.

Thank you all, as for why sometimes it's family and such that keeps her away, this doesn't bother me in the least when I find out why. and then there are other times, where I still don't know what happened. this is what gets me or annoys me. Still quite helpful and thank you.

I feel like tossing my spare change in here as well. I don't know what her reasons are for not being there or talking to you when she is supposed to. I know nothing short of a family emergency (something with my kids) or work keeping me or something would be an acceptable excuse. If I'm late, I'd pull over and call Him to let Him know I was running late and that I was ok. (I'm not allowed to use my phone while driving *grumbles*)

It's a respect issue even in a vanilla relationship, you let your partner know you are ok! If I didn't call my Master would be home worried sick about my safety. If I walked in the door perfectly fine with an excuse that was less than tragic, I'd be in a load of trouble. Honestly, I'd be pissed as hell if He did that to me. We respect one another far too much to do that. Though, things happen.

Not knowing what her reasons are, and judging by your ellipses in your typing while you said they were good excuses... I'm going to go on a bit of a tangent.

I'm submissive. Many subs (not all, calm down) like to push boundaries. We are often manipulative, and sneaky. For YEARS I test Dom after Dom to see if He was the one that could actually control me. Most of them were epic failures on that end. Not because they were bad Doms, it was just that we didn't click. I'm loud, blunt and opinionated. I often intimidate people in person. So it took someone that in a small way intimidated -me- to actually reign me in.

My off the wall point is, make sure it's not a manipulation thing on her part. It's usually not something that is done consciously. If it is, you will want to put your foot down on that behavior. I'd suggest letting her know the behavior is unacceptable, and setting consequences for when it happens. But be very clear about what is ok and what isn't if she were to miss a meeting with you, or not check in at the correct time.

And -that- is my two cents!

Drop her ass and move on.
Game playing is not cool and if someone wants to serve you they will be there when they're supposed to.

just an opinion here; but i was in a very similar vanilla relationship, and she's not taking you seriously. you as in the two of you.

the girl i was 'with' (oh the bitterness lol) turned out to be married. and pregnant. and during one long pause in communication she moved four states away.

the internet and phones are great, man, but the only way to know you have time invested in something real is to be able to touch/see/hear/taste/smell it.

best of luck:)

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Originally Posted by sinderella

i know people get busy in their daily lives...we all do. but whatever is going on, save something dreadful like a family emergency, will not keep me from anyone i want to be with.

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This. If a person wants to be with you, they will be with you. The rest is just rhetoric and excuses for laziness.

If you work from 8 AM to 5 PM and have to see an old friend from 5 PM to 10 PM, you can either be a big, silent monolith to your sub the entire day, or you can:

-call/leave a text message before work
-call/text during lunch
-call/text while shirking for 15 minutes
-call/text by cutting out 15 minutes early

And when you see your old friend and go out to yammer on about old times, you can take 5 minutes to call and text then, too. Probably more than once. Plan a task to give her during your busy day so she feels you there with her. Or spend 15 minutes during lunch break talking dirty to her and ordering her to cum. This isn't rocket science.

People who want to be with others make the effort. People who don't care, don't.

- IC

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Originally Posted by Mizar

This is just a curiosity. I have a sub, online only, we talk (daily practicaly) and we aren't together in any other sense. In anycase, the point of this is. she talks as though she wants a moderately serious Dom (a sacred bond she calls it), which is what I hope for, then she wont speak with me, or will suddenly stop, she generaly has a...good...reason for it, then we will talk, and she will fall over herself (practicaly) with listening to what I tell her to. It is a bad cycle I find myself in. I love her as my sub, but sometimes...she ignores me persay, and this is aggrivating. I don't know what to do about her. In essence how should I, get her under control, or what in general should I do about her?

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I've read the questions, and the thread. One shared something of their past to consider. It wasn't a happy turnout, but that happens unfortunately sometimes. I have also an aspect to share, or consider. It wasn't a happy time for me either. But it happened, and is worth considering I think also.

Perhaps this Sub is in a committed Relationship already, or even Married. It could be D/s or 'nilla. This could be an online thing for her. A way to sort of Live in her fantasies. Or a way to get attention she isn't getting for whatever reason from her Partner. Or she could even be seeking a ITF D/s Partner on some level. Her Partner may know nothing of her online activities. And if they are 'nilla, nothing of her other side/deep needs. Or she may have no open Agreement to persue such things. That could well explain the absences, or lack or breaks in communications. If this is the case, she does have to be careful, or perhaps lose what she has.

There are a lot of players online. It's something they enjoy. Some play very hard with others. Some do great harm in what they do, and cause others a lot of pain. Some will play it to the end. When they come trapped or busted in their game. When that happens, they just find someone else eventually. And start another hard game.

My experience in this was as that Partner. It was horrific on that end also.

I'm not saying this is the case. Just that it might be. And it is something to be careful of.

I wish You all the best. And I hope this is not the case at all.

Respectfully~SidheWolf

Addendum;

Not the 'nilla Partner though <G>.

If a person wants to be in contact with you, she will do so.
There is nothing wrong with getting too busy in real life for whatever reasons, but no one can tell me it was not possible to drop a text message or e-mail, informing the partner why/how much later they would be back/able to talk again. It takes how much time to type a text message or e-mail, saying "I won´t make it today, I will call you tomorrow around noon" or something like that? 30 seconds max. Don´t tell me you did not have the time to do that.

Leaving the partner to guesswork stinks. It is, as someone above said, game-playing. I would never put up with such a thing.

One reason I chose my hubby was that he never, not a single time in 11 years now, played any sort of such games with me. I appreciate him very much for that, because it is, in my experience, a rare thing.

A person who keeps you guessing repeatedly, without informing you about the why and when, does not respect you as a person, and does not care about your feelings.

As for the apologies and reasoning later on - fuck that.

Just my 2 cents.

yes someone who does not show basic consideration of imforming someone that they got too busy and to put in the effort to make time to send a text email or whatever is not worth the effort to be with

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Originally Posted by Arria

If a person wants to be in contact with you, she will do so.
There is nothing wrong with getting too busy in real life for whatever reasons, but no one can tell me it was not possible to drop a text message or e-mail, informing the partner why/how much later they would be back/able to talk again. It takes how much time to type a text message or e-mail, saying "I won´t make it today, I will call you tomorrow around noon" or something like that? 30 seconds max. Don´t tell me you did not have the time to do that.

Leaving the partner to guesswork stinks. It is, as someone above said, game-playing. I would never put up with such a thing.

One reason I chose my hubby was that he never, not a single time in 11 years now, played any sort of such games with me. I appreciate him very much for that, because it is, in my experience, a rare thing.

A person who keeps you guessing repeatedly, without informing you about the why and when, does not respect you as a person, and does not care about your feelings.

As for the apologies and reasoning later on - fuck that.

Just my 2 cents.

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Arria...stop being so lady-like, and tell us how you really feel. :D

I'm now very happily in a 24/7 real time BDSM relationship- but I was the submissive in an online relationship- my Dom used to vanish for relatively long periods of time and have a good reason for why. I found out that in fact he was in a 24/7 Dom/slave relationship- with a slave who did not know that he was persuing a relationship with me and the abscences were due to her being home and him not being able to be online. I truly hope this is not your situation but it is something you need to be very aware of. There are an awful lot of people out there who are not what they appear to be and the fallout can be painful for everyone concerned.

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Originally Posted by MistressRage

Drop her ass and move on.
Game playing is not cool and if someone wants to serve you they will be there when they're supposed to.

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Mmmm and this also works the other way - doms can be equally as guilty of this kind of game playing and if a dom expects total and utter submission from his sub he must fulfil his part of the bargain and be there for her too.

they seem to be playing head games with you by leading you on an keeping you dangling waiting for them. it's obvious somethings happened and their just not letting on which is unfair on you. i'd personal ditch them an look for another dom who will treat you better, you gave them enough chances... their loss an another doms gain ;)

Could it be a struggle for control? Maybe she is trying to rebel and take a bit of the control back that she willingly gave up in the beginning? We all understand about real life, but I would have to tell you to trust your instincts. From what I can tell, many doms/dommes know their subs really well even if it is over long distances. Go with what your gut is telling you. If she is truly doing it for important life reasons, or just to misbehave.

I'm pretty new and just beginning to understand a bit about the bdsm lifestyle, but really I think it comes down to respect. A text takes a while of 15 seconds to write. A e-mail about the same, even if it's "i'm thinking of you." Any open communication is good communications even if it's "hi."

One thing I have found is that respect is so important. It is all about a strong foundation and respect is a huge part of that. If it's not there, then is it worth fighting for it, forcing it or just letting it go? I guess, is she worth fighting for, forcing or is it just a relationship that needs to let go?

You deserve to be respected, as I'm sure you respect her.

Just my 2 cents.

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Originally Posted by jeanne

Arria...stop being so lady-like, and tell us how you really feel. :D

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*gives jeanne a big hug and runs off giggling*

On the matter of game-playing, I tend to rant. ;-)

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Originally Posted by voxelectronica

Life is far to short to not be satisfied with your relationships. I want my subs to be there ready for me. I don't find this to much to ask, just some availability so that I can talk to them even if it's just about their day. If that can't comply with that basic idea then they are on their own. I'll be their friends, I'll talk with them, I'll hear them out but I WILL NOT invest my time unless i get the same in return.

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well said. took the words right out of my mouth.

As said many times above, "If she truly wants to be with You then she would find a way."

But again, she could be going through a rebellious stage and again a really good way to stop this would be to tell her that it's unacceptable and ignore her for a set period. Make sure she knows why you're not speaking to her though.

But also, if she's one to forget her place then maybe You just need to give her one good thorough session of punishment. When I get out of line my Master (W/we have a very long distance relationship atm) will give me a very humiliating tongue lashing, afterwords it's like I can think more clearly thanks to the punishment.

Interestingly enough (and a bit off topic) this happened the first time just after O/our relationship went long-distance and I was missing Him horribly, I still miss Him like crazy and I've notice lately that when I'm missing Him the most is usually when I start acting up again. I'm endeavoring to be more careful of my actions so I don't disappoint Him again.

Sana