Jealousy

[propertyofslavehaven]

I am a true slave. I feel it inside me. I have the need to please even as a little girl, teenager and now. I am a submissive person through and through. I never heard of Master/slave relationships until my Master told me about them. When he did i was very interested in all of it and i knew i could be a slave for him. I knew that pleasing him would come easy to me. I thought that there was nothing i wouldn't do to make him happy. I love him and worship him with every ounce of my being. He truly is my everything. Without him i am nothing because he is what makes me whole. I learned that i am a jealous person and maybe it comes from loving him so much. I know what he wants and what makes him happy. one of the things that makes him happy is having others to play with, which he does. but my jealousy behavior afterwards is a problem. I want to give him everything flawlessly. I feel like a failure as a slave because i am so jealous. It seems like im not serving him completely because we go through this jealousy problem. We have had many many talks and tried different things to overcome this problem. Master always reassures me im his number one and i will always be very special to him and he is very understanding. But there is some kind of fear inside me and i don't know what it is. I do know im selfish when it comes to my Master- that nobody deserves him like i do. I know his likes his dislikes...I don't want anyone to get a chance to get to know him like me and please him like i please him. I also know that having others to play with is one of the things that make him happy, and that is the most important to please my Master and i cant do it without the green monster coming out. The jealousy feeling is overwhelming and i want to stop it for him and me or at least keep it under control and behave in the right manor. My question is that if someone is jealous can they ever get over it or are they always jealous? I want to be a true slave to my Master. I will always worship and serve him to the best of my ability and i will never stop trying to better myself for him. I love my Master unconditionally. That is what makes this so complicated because why am i jealous if i feel so stongly about pleasing my Master????

[denuseri]

Becuase your still a human being with all that entails regardless of which titular distinctions you wish to make or preconseptions about what being a "true" slave is and isnt all about.

[Dog's Lady]

My lover/Master has always been poly, and he warned me from the start that, even if he stays in love with me, he will, eventually, need a little "strange." I, too, am insecure-he has much more experience, vanilla and BDSM than I do, and I worry that I will not be good enough or even enough for him. So far, he has been very supportive/complimentary towards me-he says I do things no-one else has-but I still worry that he will want/need someone better (or thinner, or younger, or braver, or just more than I am.)
We have agreed that he will warn me before he finds his "strange," and I have said that I would prefer if WE found the strange together, I think because if I see him with her, I will know by his behavior how he feels about her. I also am, what's the term, bi-curious? At my age (42, and proud of it) I hesitate to try and find a female/female relationship because I'm a little too old to fumble like a teenager. If the two of us took a third together, he could help me with what to do with her, and I would look like less of an idiot. If we found another female sub, he could teach me about topping, so I could do a better job of topping him when he wants/needs that (he is a switch-top, bottom and vanilla.)
The thing is, I know, as in have met, other women who want him. I know they exist, are not just phantoms of my fear. I just remind myself that he is with me now, not them, and try to rein in that green-eyed monster. I know that if I am too possessive, I will just drive him off. Dog, as you may have guessed, is a nickname, but it reminds me that he is not a lap dog and would resent a leash. Okay, this may be hokey, but I try to remember the old 38 Special son, Hold on Loosely, and live by it with him.
I don't know if these thoughts help any, but they should at least give food for thought.
(BTW, Oz, I get the 1 to 10 years comparison, especially since I have three lovers and one of my best friends all in one person.)

[Ozme52]

It's hard to share if you have any doubts. But if you are truly open, it can be amazing. Whether you share during or after (meaning sharing the tales of your trysts,) it can bring you closer to your poly partner(s).

I hope that he lets you wander too. It makes sharing him ever so much easier, knowing first hand how it actually can bring you closer together.

[Dog's Lady]

I am already wandering, sort of. I am married to someone else, although we are talking about splitting up when the economy recovers enough that we can sell the house for, oh, the outstanding mortgage? Husband knows about lover and is understanding, if not completely thrilled. Husband and I are keeping up the facade for the 8-yr old, who doesn't need to know Mom and Dad are falling apart on her.
Right now, I don't want to wander-I want my Dog, top, bottom or vanilla, or just to sleep next to for a few nights. I would like to explore a third in our relationship at some point, but I would rather do it together. I am not thrilled that Dog needs to wander on occasion, but I would rather have him wander and return than lose him because I held on too tightly. That may change someday, but for right now, I am too twitterpated with him to always think clearly about him. (Don't you just love Disney words? It's from Bambi, in case you don't remember it.)

[ksst]

I do love Bambi sayings.

[thir]

My question is that if someone is jealous can they ever get over it or are they always jealous? I want to be a true slave to my Master. I will always worship and serve him to the best of my ability and i will never stop trying to better myself for him. I love my Master unconditionally. That is what makes this so complicated because why am i jealous if i feel so stongly about pleasing my Master????

Becuase your still a human being with all that entails regardless of which titular distinctions you wish to make or preconseptions about what being a "true" slave is and isnt all about.

That is it. We are what we are.

You talk like loving unconditionally and wanting strongly to please also means that you can do anything. But that would mean that you could - by an act of will - wipe out all your previous years that made you who you are today. It does not work that way, don't you see?

Loving, wanting to please, jealousy, they are all there, side by side. They do not cancel each other out.

Maybe the first step would be not to agonize over whether you are a 'real' slave if you are jealous. Yes you are, because you are also still the human being you were before. My guess would be that it might be easier if you let the 'true slave' problems go, stop trying to be flawless, which only the Gods are, and start simply accepting that you have this jealousy problem, and that this is a natural thing to have in a lot of circumstances. Maybe it would free energy to focus on the problem itself.

My second thought is that one of the hardest things to unlearn in our cultures is the myth about the one and only. That you can only love, or care about one person. Therefore, if you care about more than one person, you cannot be serious about the first one, or they 'loose' something. This is simply not true. Your place in his heart has your shape, no one else in the whole universe can ever fit that shape. Only you!


My third thought is if it would help if you, on your side, also found another person to play with?

My forth is that if you search the net for poly lists you will find tons of stuff about jealousy, and how people handle it.

And my last is, it may be that you simply cannot avoid being jealousy. In which case you have a choice in front of you.

[propertyofslavehaven]

Me and my Master have been going through bad times with the jealousy issue for about a year. We never gave up on trying to find better ways to deal with my jealousy. It would work for awhile but then it eventually come back into our relationship with a powerful punch and stronger than ever. I was losing who i was and Master didnt feel like a Master and i didnt feel like a slave. We were beginning to think our Master/slave lifestyle was over because i couldnt control the monster that came out to haunt us. Our love for each other is extremely strong and we have lots of good qualities in our relationship, honesty, communication ,devotion, dedication and the will and drive to get through the toughest times. This has been one of our tough times. My sickness is gone. (jealousy) We made a breakthrough. I learned that jealousy for me is insecurties about myself and irrational thoughts that i started to believe. Nothing Master could say would help me overcome my fears and my way of thinking. I couldnt see what was really happening. All i thought was that he was going to find someone better than me and the more i became jealous and showed myself badly, the more i knew that was true. I was making my irrational thoughts come true. This became tourture for me. I was tourturing myself. COMMUNICATION! We never stoped that. Master talks things out with me. A couple of days ago we had a long talk about what we want from each other and who we are to each other and to our selfs. This talk worked and i realized that my jealousy made me blind on who my Master is and my ways of my thinking were WRONG! As my Master told me who he is and what he wants from his life the irrational jealousy was fading away, i understood him completely and wanted the same things he wanted. People who are jealous are insecure and they need to trust the other person. That was my problem. I was afraid to trust in fear losing him. I didnt want to take a chance, i held on to all those bad feelings and started to believe and trust in them instead of my Master. I was at my breaking point and i needed my jealousy behavior to end. I listened and really understood what he was saying to me. I know my Master and i have always known he is a good man, fair man, and loves me as much as i love him. He has never hurt me and has stuck by me through this when i was pushing him away with out even knowing it. He loves me, he wants the best for me and he is not trying to replace me. He is being himself and always has been doing that. It wasnt him that changed it was me and my fears that i couldnt escape. I will always be jealous just because i love him so deeply and i know that he deserves the best of the best and no one knows him as much as me. Jealousy and love are sisters. Jealousy is ok with me when it comes out in a good way and not in the destructive way. I am not very good with my words. What im trying to say is im over this "BAD JEALOUSY" I listened and opened my eyes to what was really going on in our life. My insecurities are gone and my all my trust is in my Master. Thank you for all of the advice that everyone left for us. It helped. Jealousy is a hard thing to deal with and i guess its different for each person and if there relationship is strong enough they will get through in there own way. Never give up on the things that are important.

[thir]

We were beginning to think our Master/slave lifestyle was over because i couldnt control the monster that came out to haunt us.

Would you like to explain why it was your Ms realationship especially that was threathened? I mean, as opposed to your relationship as a whole? Just interested.

We made a breakthrough. I learned that jealousy for me is insecurties about myself and irrational thoughts that i started to believe. Nothing Master could say would help me overcome my fears and my way of thinking.

A couple of days ago we had a long talk about what we want from each other and who we are to each other and to our selfs. This talk worked and i realized that my jealousy made me blind on who my Master is and my ways of my thinking were WRONG!

Good for you!!
And I think you are making and important point here, that jealousy is often (fi not always) a problem within ourselves, and others cannot talk us out of it. There has to be a change in within ourselves.

People who are jealous are insecure and they need to trust the other person.

IMO though this is often the case, it is not always so. Jealousy can come from real fear as well, as in situations where there is a real and recognized risk of a break-up, or where there is too little meeting of needs, and others.

What makes it all so difficult is that sometimes you should trust yourself, if your feelings tell you that your situation is not good and makes you unhappy, even if your partner tells you that you are wrong to be jealous. Obvious example is a Master with too many slaves to make it function.

I will always be jealous just because i love him so deeply and i know that he deserves the best of the best and no one knows him as much as me. Jealousy and love are sisters.

As this is a general discussion of jealousy, I feel like saying that this sounds very wrong to me, though it may be how it is for you.
Jealousy and love are not sisters, that would mean that if you are not jealous, you do not love, that jealousy is a proof of love. This is not the case, people can love without jealousy, or they can be jealous without love (being possesive or envious, for example.)

Jealousy is ok with me when it comes out in a good way and not in the destructive way. I am not very good with my words. What im trying to say is im over this "BAD JEALOUSY" I listened and opened my eyes to what was really going on in our life. My insecurities are gone and my all my trust is in my Master. Thank you for all of the advice that everyone left for us. It helped. Jealousy is a hard thing to deal with and i guess its different for each person and if there relationship is strong enough they will get through in there own way. Never give up on the things that are important.

Good to hear that things are better :-) Jealousy is a dangerous enemy and hard to conquer, congrats that you have!

[denuseri]

Jealousy can come from real fear as well, as in situations where there is a real and recognized risk of a break-up, or where there is too little meeting of needs, and others.

Or as part of a quite natural biological response; a response that varies depending upon the individuals, how much or how little that response is hardwired etc and situational modifiers involved. It also can be impossible to control in some circumstances and in essence be considered quite reasonable behavior for some people to exhibit and in effect be just as "ok" as not being jealous?

[foxy lady]

dear propertyofslaveheavan....

i wish i could give you an articulated sophisticated answer like the kinksters before me, but im no different to you..
i have no advice to give on how to control or rein it in..... i am insanely possessive and jealous and protective ~ with out fail i feel this way with every one i love.
i remember brining my newborn baby home for the first time, and my best friend taking him and making stupid gurgling sounds to MY baby, i remember looking down seeing my fist clutch tight and feeling utter rage inside.

what i do know is this: jealousy springs from insecurity and doubting one self, and no amount of self-control or effort on your part will take that away from You...the ONLY person that can settle this for you, is Your Master...His love His reassurance of who and what you are to Him and Him proving His character to you...and You having enough faith in yourself and Him...to believe it.

good luck!

[leo9]

Me and my Master have been going through bad times with the jealousy issue for about a year. We never gave up on trying to find better ways to deal with my jealousy... My sickness is gone. (jealousy)

Well done! Far too few people can get there.

We made a breakthrough. I learned that jealousy for me is insecurties about myself and irrational thoughts that i started to believe. Nothing Master could say would help me overcome my fears and my way of thinking. I couldnt see what was really happening. All i thought was that he was going to find someone better than me and the more i became jealous and showed myself badly, the more i knew that was true. I was making my irrational thoughts come true.

Well seen. Insecurity - fear of loss - is nine tenths of what is called jealousy, and yes, it becomes a self fulfilling fear. My mother once observed that when someone fears they aren't loved, they respond by acting as unlovable as possible.

People who are jealous are insecure and they need to trust the other person.

You're only halfway there: they also have to trust THEMSELVES. Trust that they are worth loving, trust that they are loved, trust that they are strong enough to survive if their worst fears come true and they lose that love.

My first (vanilla) love never loved me the way I loved her; she was fond of me, but I was just one of a lot of men in her life, and she never pretended differently. In some ways, that gave me a head start in giving up jealousy: there was no point being afraid of losing what I didn't have. I learnt to live with her other loves because it was either that or give her up. I learnt to be glad that there were other people who could make her happy when I wasn't there. Later, when I was in the poly scene (with a later partner) and a man asked me why I wasn't jealous, I said "You're doing good things for the woman I love. How could I mind that?"

I wrote once in another forum: "It is a conventional sign of love to say you couldn't live without someone, but there are nasty implications behind the flattery: that you stay with them because you've no choice, and they'd better stay with you or they'll have you on their conscience. More loving is to say 'I could leave if I chose, but I stay with you because I love you.'"

[leo9]

Or as part of a quite natural biological response; a response that varies depending upon the individuals, how much or how little that response is hardwired etc and situational modifiers involved. It also can be impossible to control in some circumstances and in essence be considered quite reasonable behavior for some people to exhibit and in effect be just as "ok" as not being jealous?

We seem to be the only primates with a pair-bonding urge. It's been argued that this is due to the greatly extended dependency of human infants: that doesn't stand up well when you consider that we also show signs of being adapted to co-operative child rearing (such as the ability of human females to lactate without pregnancy if they nurse someone else's baby for long enough,) but it might explain why a pairing that feels eternal when it starts can fade away after a few years, when an infant might be big enough not to need a couple's care.

But if it's a real instinct, it must have been overlaid on the much older primate promiscuity. And as so often happens when you add a software patch over an existing program, and launch it without enough debugging, the two sometimes interact in bizarre ways and sometimes crash completely.

[ksst]

There are primates that are more monogamous than humans. The cotton topped tamarin, for one.

he Cotton-top Tamarins have a monogamous breeding system and live in groups ranging from 1-19 individuals. However, the most common group sizes are from 3-9 individuals. These groups consist of a dominant mated pair, their young of the year, and a few subordinate or young animals of both sexes. These subordinate members tend to form small groups and migrate in and out of the home range of the main group. ....Males put forth more effort in caring for young than the females. The father assists at birth and carries the young all of the time exept when the mother is feeding.

[thir]

Or as part of a quite natural biological response; a response that varies depending upon the individuals, how much or how little that response is hardwired etc and situational modifiers involved. It also can be impossible to control in some circumstances and in essence be considered quite reasonable behavior for some people to exhibit and in effect be just as "ok" as not being jealous?

IMO all feelings are natural. We have them, they are our feelings, we are not responsible for those, but we are responsible for our actions. Jealousy is a legitimate feeling, and should be respected as such. But it causes so many problems, and is so painful, I find it very useful to have a good thread about it. Often I think it is like fear of bereavement, but as opposed to actually loosing someone- which, however painful, you do get over someday - it does not go away! It just goes on and on, if you cannot find a way to deal with it. Yes, definitly something to be taken seriously and to work with.

Impossible to control? Do you mean as in being sad, or yelling, or as in killing your partner so no one else can have her/him? I think all violent feelings are hard to control, but with this as with others - hate, fear etc - we are asked to control them. Jealousy is just one other, if you see what I mean. I do not think it should 'rate' as being more understandable if you commit violence out of jealousy, than if you do it out of hate. In fact, violence out of jealousy is, to me, very much like hate. It certainly isn't love - not to me! Though this might be a very good point to discuss!

Reasonable behaviour? Again, I am not quite sure what you are thinking of, except that it is a feeling we get often, sometimes for realistic reasons, sometimes for our own inner reasons. I think we should be 'allowed' to show our feelings, and not have some of them put in a box called 'unacceptable'. They are there, they are our feelings and part of us, we should not be reduced to censorship or self-censorship! But on the other hand I do not think it should be cultivated or encouraged, the way the mono-culture often do. I think these problems are much better handled if treated like problems, not moral questions.

[denuseri]

All I mean thir is that it is what it is, if one is jealous it's not right to say oh well too bad deal with it cause the jealous one must be at fault.

In so far as getting violent...there is such a thing as a crime of passion, additionally, amongst primates it's not uncommon for the mated pairs to drive off even kill rivals but I doubt the op's case is in any way associated to this though it is most certifiably is where the natural response comes from.

[thir]

"Well seen. Insecurity - fear of loss - is nine tenths of what is called jealousy, and yes, it becomes a self fulfilling fear. My mother once observed that when someone fears they aren't loved, they respond by acting as unlovable as possible."

I disagree. Jealousy is a header with many emotions behind it. Insecurity is one, possesiveness is just as common, so is envy, realistic fear, and deprivement.

[thir]

All I mean thir is that it is what it is, if one is jealous it's not right to say oh well too bad deal with it cause the jealous one must be at fault.

Quite. That was what I meant.

In so far as getting violent...there is such a thing as a crime of passion, additionally, amongst primates it's not uncommon for the mated pairs to drive off even kill rivals but I doubt the op's case is in any way associated to this though it is most certifiably is where the natural response comes from.

Hate is also a passion - should a hate crime be seen more leniently because of it?

[Ozme52]

Hate is also a passion - should a hate crime be seen more leniently because of it?

Not to sidetrack but.... No. If hate generated fear or rage perhaps. But real "hate crimes" aren't crimes of passion. That kind of hate is a learned response and very little true emotion goes into them. (IMO)

[leo9]

In so far as getting violent...there is such a thing as a crime of passion, additionally, amongst primates it's not uncommon for the mated pairs to drive off even kill rivals but I doubt the op's case is in any way associated to this though it is most certifiably is where the natural response comes from.

Among humans, what we call a crime of passion usually seems to mean killing the partner who has left or threatened to leave (and, in an increasing number of cases, their children.) I defy you to find an animal equivalent to such an evolutionarily self-destructive behaviour.

On the other hand, in a human context it does make sense in terms of a collective need to control. In the same way that rapists are the allies of men who want to keep women clinging to them for protection, these jealousy-berserkers are the allies of all the men who want to be sure their partner daren't leave.

[leo9]

There are primates that are more monogamous than humans. The cotton topped tamarin, for one.

....Males put forth more effort in caring for young than the females. The father assists at birth and carries the young all of the time exept when the mother is feeding.

OK, I didn't know that. Interesting. Any other examples worth sharing?

[denuseri]

Hate is also a passion - should a hate crime be seen more leniently because of it?

Of course not that would be just silly.

[denuseri]

Among humans, what we call a crime of passion usually seems to mean killing the partner who has left or threatened to leave (and, in an increasing number of cases, their children.) I defy you to find an animal equivalent to such an evolutionarily self-destructive behaviour.

Not where I am from...its more likened to killing the person who one thinks just killed their loved one, or killing a cheating spouse on the spot when caught in the actual act, and never ever involves killing children...in fact its often legally considered a far lesser charge or completely justified or forgivable.

Animals like male lions kill the young they think doesn't belong to them all the time and amongst wolves only the mated alpha pair is allowed to actually mate...get caught humping in the pack outside that arrangement and you will be driven off or killed. The textbook cases with a chimps attempting to kill and or harm rivals in numerous situations are too many to document here but happen all the time ask any primateolegist about how violent our cousins in the wild can be it's no far stretch I am proposing to the forum here.

On the other hand, in a human context it does make sense in terms of a collective need to control. In the same way that rapists are the allies of men who want to keep women clinging to them for protection, these jealousy-berserkers are the allies of all the men who want to be sure their partner daren't leave.

Understanding how such things function in our animal friends provides valuable insight at times in understanding ourselves.

[leo9]

Not to sidetrack but.... No. If hate generated fear or rage perhaps. But real "hate crimes" aren't crimes of passion. That kind of hate is a learned response and very little true emotion goes into them. (IMO)

I beg to disagree - hate crimes are some of the most emotional there are, and they do not get any less from being taught to hate from early years.

In the same way, if we are taught that jealousy crimes are normal and understandable, there will be more of them.

There is to me a big difference between understanding and accepting jealousy, and accepting crimes because of jealousy.

[leo9]

Sorry, that was from me, thir.

[ksst]

I just watched a Nature show on mustangs. A crippled foal was born, and when it couldn't keep up with the band they started to abandon it. Another herd moved in, and many showed solicitous interest in the baby, until the stallion got there. He took one sniff and then violently killed the baby. Both his own herd and the original herd tried to fight him off but it was no use. It was hard to watch. It's the same thing lions do if a male comes upon cubs that are not his own.
This has a lot to do with jealousy. It's a way of ensuring more resources for his own babies by getting rid of someone elses.

Not that we need to act in horrible ways like animals sometimes do, because we hopefully have more control of ourselves and understand right and wrong, but I think our feelings are rooted in the fact that we are animals.

I have a question about non jealousy, in a situation when jealousy might be appropriate or expected. Where does that come from? I'm thinking of times when various things have happened when another person might have been extremely jealous, and I'm just not. At all. If anything, I was amused. So, what does that mean?

[thir]

I just watched a Nature show on mustangs. A crippled foal was born, and when it couldn't keep up with the band they started to abandon it. Another herd moved in, and many showed solicitous interest in the baby, until the stallion got there. He took one sniff and then violently killed the baby. Both his own herd and the original herd tried to fight him off but it was no use. It was hard to watch. It's the same thing lions do if a male comes upon cubs that are not his own.
This has a lot to do with jealousy. It's a way of ensuring more resources for his own babies by getting rid of someone elses.

I do not know enough about animals to know if they can be jealous in the human sense of that word. But the situations we were taking about concerns humans killing their own children, not someone elses'.
Re denuseri: I cannot know how things go in your area, but in other parts of US, in DK, and here in UK there are indeed examples of parents killing their children along with a spouse who wanted to leave. In fact, we had one tragic example right in our own street where we live, and this is actually a quite calm and peaceful neighbour hood normally.

I personally think that acceptance of jealousy violence is absolutely wrong - murder is murder, whether or not it involves adults or children, or both. I would guess that we all have at least one area where we think murder is justified - maybe revenge, racism, gays, infedelity, people who harm helpless others, or whatever. But the law is no killing, and to prevent everything from becoming hopeless, we must, as I see it, condemn murder - always.

Not that we need to act in horrible ways like animals sometimes do, because we hopefully have more control of ourselves and understand right and wrong, but I think our feelings are rooted in the fact that we are animals.

I think so too, we may think that this or other reaction comes from animal life, but does it? And if it does, does that make it ok?
Killing is, to me, about seeing other people as your possession. But we do not own each other, at least not normally. And, in cases where there is an ownership and M/s relationship, does that mean that it is ok for the Master to kill an unfaithful slave?

I have a question about non jealousy, in a situation when jealousy might be appropriate or expected. Where does that come from? I'm thinking of times when various things have happened when another person might have been extremely jealous, and I'm just not. At all. If anything, I was amused. So, what does that mean?

I do not think that jealousy is ever apppropriate, as such, any more than there are situations where you aught to be happy, or angry, or sad, or whatever. But as for not being jealousy when many others might be, be happy that you are not - you escaped a very painful feeling!
As for what it means - probably that you are a very whole and balanced human being.

[thir]

I just watched a Nature show on mustangs. A crippled foal was born, and when it couldn't keep up with the band they started to abandon it. Another herd moved in, and many showed solicitous interest in the baby, until the stallion got there. He took one sniff and then violently killed the baby. Both his own herd and the original herd tried to fight him off but it was no use. It was hard to watch. It's the same thing lions do if a male comes upon cubs that are not his own.
This has a lot to do with jealousy. It's a way of ensuring more resources for his own babies by getting rid of someone elses.

I do not know enough about animals to know if they can be jealous in the human sense of that word. But the situations we were taking about concerns humans killing their own children, not someone elses'.
Re denuseri: I cannot know how things go in your area, but in other parts of US, in DK, and here in UK there are indeed examples of parents killing their children along with a spouse who wanted to leave. In fact, we had one tragic example right in our own street where we live, and this is actually a quite calm and peaceful neighbour hood normally.

I personally think that acceptance of jealousy violence is absolutely wrong - murder is murder, whether or not it involves adults or children, or both. I would guess that we all have at least one area where we think murder is justified - maybe revenge, racism, gays, infedelity, people who harm helpless others, or whatever. But the law is no killing, and to prevent everything from becoming hopeless, we must, as I see it, condemn murder - always.

Not that we need to act in horrible ways like animals sometimes do, because we hopefully have more control of ourselves and understand right and wrong, but I think our feelings are rooted in the fact that we are animals.

I think so too, we may think that this or other reaction comes from animal life, but does it? And if it does, does that make it ok?
Killing is, to me, about seeing other people as your possession. But we do not own each other, at least not normally. And, in cases where there is an ownership and M/s relationship, does that mean that it is ok for the Master to kill an unfaithful slave?

I have a question about non jealousy, in a situation when jealousy might be appropriate or expected. Where does that come from? I'm thinking of times when various things have happened when another person might have been extremely jealous, and I'm just not. At all. If anything, I was amused. So, what does that mean?

I do not think that jealousy is ever apppropriate, as such, any more than there are situations where you aught to be happy, or angry, or sad, or whatever. But as for not being jealousy when many others might be, be happy that you are not - you escaped a very painful feeling!
As for what it means - probably that you are a very whole and balanced human being.

[thir]

sorry - I repeated my own post.

[thir]

I think it would be useful to discuss jealousy in more general terms. Here are cuts from an article:


UNMASKING THE GREEN-EYED MONSTER:

By Kathy Labriola, Counselor/Nurse

"Despite how enlightened we think we are, most of us experience jealousy if our spouse or lover has a sexual relationship with someone else."

"We tend to think of jealousy as a single emotion, but actually it is a whole bundle of feelings that tend to get lumped together. Jealousy can manifest as anger, fear, hurt, betrayal, anxiety, agitation, sadness, paranoia, depression, loneliness, envy, coveting, feeling powerless, feeling inadequate, feeling excluded. It often helps to identify what is the exact mix of feelings you experience when you feel jealous. What is the primary emotion you feel when you are jealous? Demystifying the exact components of your jealousy can be a giant step towards getting a grip on things and resolving the problem. Is it always the same for you or does the mix change from time to time depending on circumstances? "

"It is crucial to understand what jealousy is and what it is about. Jealousy is about fear--fear of the unknown and of change, fear of losing power or control in a relationship, fear of scarcity and of loss, and fear of abandonment. It is a reflection of our own insecurity about our worthiness, anxiety about being adequate as a lover, and doubts about our desirability."

"For every jealous feeling there is an emotion behind the jealousy that is much more significant than the jealousy itself. Behind jealousy there is an unmet need or a deep fear that our needs will not be met. Recognizing those fears and unmet needs is the key to unmasking jealousy and taking away its power. Jealousy is just the finger pointing at the fears and needs we are afraid to face. When jealousy kicks in, it is the ancient reptilian part of our brain going into a "fight or flight" response because we feel that our very survival is threatened. When you feel jealous, ask yourself, "What is it that I am really afraid of? What do I need to make this situation safe for me?" "What is the worst thing that could happen and how likely is that to happen?"

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