"Barely Submissive"- A Question of Being

[tessa]

I've been thinking some more on this, thanks to all these incredible replies.

First off, the term "doormat", used in any context with the topic of submission, is bugging the heck out of me. No disrespect meant to anyone. Submission, in whatever form it appears, whether it be high-spiritedness or quiet dignity or anything in between, brings with it a great amount of power. To deem any of it with the term "doormat" is doing all submissives an injustice. When that term is used, I think of misguided souls who just don't know their worth yet.

Tom brought this shadow of a thought to the forefront of my mind when he said:

And surely all Doms want women who want to be doormats, or we wouldn't be drawn to being Masters? The reason why I don't want a docile door mat isn't that it would be boring, (which I'm sure it wouldn't be) but the fact that I would know that I'm probably not giving her what she needs. In my experience the real challenge is to get a sub to share the demands she has in way other than having a tantrum and standing, tears streaming, with her bags packed in our hall.

Ok, ignoring the word "doormat", what he said was what I wanted to say and didn't know how to say it. The dynamic of the D/s or M/s relationship is about someone having control and someone giving up control. Of course, there are extremely varying degrees of what "control" means to every individual, but without both those parts, not much but sheer frustration is going to be going on, right? For some Dominants, the idea that a submissive would be docile and immediately obedient is a massive turn-on. But for other Dominants, being involved with someone struggling with their need to submit is what they prefer. Ok, that's my thoughts on it anyway.

Some submissives are very aware and cognizant of who they are and what they want to be. They push a Dominant's limits as much as the Dominant pushes their's. But for some submissives, they are still in the learning process, trying to understand all of it and where their place is. They need (we need) guidance and patience and training, to get us to the point of assured awareness and knowing our worth. I'm learning from the Dominants here that the challenge submissives like that present doesn't make us worthless or useless. We aren't for everyone, but neither is every Dominant appealing to every submissive (sorry Doms ) It's about the journey of "more"- finding each other and discovering just how far and deep the relationship can go.

How's that for thinking out loud?

tessa

[TomOfSweden]

I'm learning from the Dominants here that the challenge submissives like that present doesn't make us worthless or useless.

Isn't the notion contradictory? Just the fact that a submissive is willing to let herself be humiliated by me and be my doormat, makes her highly valued and useful. I'm marrying my doormat on Saturday. I value her more than life itself. I can't think of a more valuable person in my entire life.

She's highly submissive. I don't like the term docile, because in my mind that's connected to strong medication...but she always obeys my every command. So far since we've met she has only gone against my orders once, and it was quite a trauma for her, (and this was before the whipping).

But she's also very opinionated, (not to mention smarter than me) and we have plenty of debates and discussions about a variety of subjects. My point is that I see no conflict between being extremely submissive and training your Master to suit your needs.

After all I do love her and I try my best to make her happy, without violating my own highly selfish needs.

[tessa]

I'm marrying my doormat on Saturday. I value her more than life itself. I can't think of a more valuable person in my entire life.

Only Tom could say this and make me want to weep girly, emotional, heart-felt tears. And do so, knowing he used the term "doormat" just to make a pointed point.

*sings* "You're the meaning in my life. You're the inspiration. You bring feeling to my life. You're the inspiration." Ok, I only do karaoke when I'm REALLY drunk (think 3 swallows of moonshine). *ggls* It's elementary, my dear tessa! Great, though barely submissive, minds tend to think alike, which is a good thing, too, 'cause I'd hate to be the only wannabe doormat in these here parts! *huggles* Of course the panties will be cute! I was thinking of a schoolgirl uniform with ruffled panties underneath. *weg*

Oh now, I did that moonshine thing once. Once. I sang, too. I called up the principal of the high school and sang, "You are my sunshine, my only sunshine..." No. I have no idea why. Just seemed the thing to do at the time. Hence the "once". Red, Red...you aren't the only wannabe...umm...outside the door, shoe-wiping thingee in these here parts. and I think the ruffled panties idea is brilliant! We so gotta do that! Love ya, girlie! ~huggles~

pixie (or should I say lurking beauty? ) this information has been extremely helpful for me too. This place is just incredible.

D-lish, I am so happy to know you are finding what you need and want in a relationship. Painful has a new meaning for you these days, doesn't it??

[TomOfSweden]

Only Tom could say this and make me want to weep girly, emotional, heart-felt tears. And do so, knowing he used the term "doormat" just to make a pointed point.

he he. Pointy, that's me. Stab, stab.

[jeanne]

I've been thinking a lot about this topic since tessa brought it up and have been following the posts closely. I, too, like firefly's term: realistically submissive. To me it means to be submissive to the extent that I'm able at any given moment, understanding that sometimes real life just gets in the way. We will always fall short on anything that we want to do really well, simply because we're human and have trouble accepting that sometimes, good enough is good enough. After the months that I have been reading posts here, and knowing myself pretty well, I think that many submissives are perfectionists! We want to be perfect for our Doms - perfectly submissive, perfectly beautiful, perfectly sexy... Well, who the heck defines what perfect is? I vow, beginning now, to let my husband define perfect - not me, not society, not anyone else. I know (not just believe) that he is happy with me, as I am today. He likes the extent of submissiveness that I exhibit, he thinks I'm beautiful and sexy. I have no need to worry beyond that! I daresay that all of us with loving, sometimes deliciously harsh Doms in our life can say exactly the same thing. Let's celebrate that, rather than tear ourselves down.

Whew - didn't realize there was a rant inside me waiting to come out - it's over now!

[Beswitchingly Positive]

I've been thinking a lot about this topic since tessa brought it up and have been following the posts closely. I, too, like firefly's term: realistically submissive. To me it means to be submissive to the extent that I'm able at any given moment, understanding that sometimes real life just gets in the way. We will always fall short on anything that we want to do really well, simply because we're human and have trouble accepting that sometimes, good enough is good enough. After the months that I have been reading posts here, and knowing myself pretty well, I think that many submissives are perfectionists! We want to be perfect for our Doms - perfectly submissive, perfectly beautiful, perfectly sexy... Well, who the heck defines what perfect is? I vow, beginning now, to let my husband define perfect - not me, not society, not anyone else. I know (not just believe) that he is happy with me, as I am today. He likes the extent of submissiveness that I exhibit, he thinks I'm beautiful and sexy. I have no need to worry beyond that! I daresay that all of us with loving, sometimes deliciously harsh Doms in our life can say exactly the same thing. Let's celebrate that, rather than tear ourselves down.

Whew - didn't realize there was a rant inside me waiting to come out - it's over now!

AND don't the deliciously harsh doms seem to like it when we are not quite perfect? If there is no room for improvement, why punish?

Oh, right, beause it is damn sexy...

[tessa]

Whew - didn't realize there was a rant inside me waiting to come out - it's over now!

I'm kinda sad it's over. That was some wonderful ranting, jeanne.

Tom, if you weren't getting married on Saturday and weren't so in love with your slave and if I wasn't married and in love with my husband, and if we lived on the same continent and weren't oceans apart...

~takes a deep breath~

...I'd give you a big ol' kiss.

Logic, I loved what you said about the gift of submission. A wonderful thing to say.

firefly, ramble away. I got so much from you doing just that.

~thinks about Beswitchingly's so damn sexy punishment comment...moans~

[TomOfSweden]

Tom, if you weren't getting married on Saturday and weren't so in love with your slave and if I wasn't married and in love with my husband, and if we lived on the same continent and weren't oceans apart...

~takes a deep breath~

...I'd give you a big ol' kiss.

he he. I think that's the most careful invitation to naughtiness I've ever received. And if I weren't getting married on Saturday and I weren't so in love with my slave and if you wasn't married and in love with your husband, and if we lived on the same continent and weren't oceans apart...

...I'd not only kiss you back but might hazard to squeeze some of your naughty bits a tad.

[Hime]

I found this thread really interesting, because D and I were talking about this just last night. He was teasing me and said "But of course, you aren't really submissive." I said "what do you mean, of course I am!" and he said that he thinks that I am naturally submissive, but I still struggle with it all the time.

Personally, I don't mind the struggle. Sometimes it is frustrating when one impulse tells me to obey and another impulse tells me to fight, but giving in to my Master doesn't mean that I want to give up my whole personality. I think that I've earned my admittedly large ego through years of being way too tough on myself, and this relationship is the first time when I've even begun to accept myself for the messy but endearing pile of contradictions that I am. Being with D makes me feel like it's okay for me to be stubborn and arrogant sometimes, but it's still okay to be vulnerable and need taking care of as well. Obviously I can only speak for myself, but I don't really need to "move further" than that. There's nothing wrong with complicated women.