Quote Originally Posted by denuseri View Post
There is also absolutely no evidence that the gods or the God does not exist.
There can never be definitive evidence that they do not exist. Just as there can never be definitive that Santa Clause does not exist, or the Easter Bunny, or unicorns. There is plenty of evidence to show that, if any of them do exist, they don't interact with reality. There is no tangible, verifiable evidence to show that they do. If something does not interact with reality then, for all intents and purposes, it does not exist.

Therefore there can be no evidence that they didn't make us, or the universe. There is also ample evidence that the gods of humanity may have created us in their own image just as much as there may be evidence that we precieve them in ours if you have faith in the writtings of our ancestors.
Again, you suggest that such evidence would be available, when it cannot be. One cannot absolutely prove a negative. One can only show that the likelihood of something is so low as to be virtually impossible.

But what evidence exists that these beings do exist? Ancient writings? I've read books which attest to the fact that Hobbits and trolls and Elves exist in a place called Middle Earth. Am I to take that as truth? Sure, it's not an "ancient" text, but I would venture to guess that there are as many people who are familiar with that story than have actually read the Bible.

And when those "ancient writings" are contradictory even within themselves, how are we to have faith that they describe anything remotely true?

Every religion known to man has strived to explain a great many things, in fact all things, in terms understandable to people.
And every one of them has failed miserably.

What else could be behind all the wonders of creation if not a god of some kind.
Which wonders? People being killed in earthquakes and tsunamis and volcanic eruptions? Children orphaned by killer storms and tornadoes? Perhaps you mean children born with crippling birth defects? Or stillborn? Or the wonder of a five year old with terminal cancer? Are these the wonders we are to marvel at and thank the gods for? Man can explain these things through natural law, and in some cases man can prevent them. Can anyone explain why a god who created everything would permit such atrocities?

Many people believe that once they have explained somthing through science that the need to keep peity with the god or gods is gone. Others however believe that just becuase you think you understand something in such terms it doesnt mean you dismiss the part you do not understand piecmeal.
People are, of course, free to belief any fairy tales they like. What they are not free to do is to force others to believe as they do, or to proclaim that their particular fairy tale is the One True Faith®. Not without evidence.

The propogation of a belief in one god over many and the rise of this beief in the forms of Christianity, Islam, and others via Judism is the reason many people no longer worship the ancient gods of Rome, Greece, Egypt or Babylonia.
I suppose the Church's ruthless suppression of all other religions, or the Muslim bloody jihads against other religions, had nothing to do with it? If you believe in the Bible then you have to admit that even the Jews spread their religion at the point of a spear. The propagation of these religions was violent and evil, and is still going on around the world.

People are indeed often afraid of death, especially those who hold no hope for their life continuing in a different form or being reborn in a different state becuase they have lost their faith.
For my part, and many like me, I did not "lose" my faith. I took it out, studied it and found it an empty bag of air. I tossed it aside with all the other trash I've thrown out in my life. Yet strangely, according to your beliefs, I am no longer afraid of death. Afraid of dying, yes. When I go I hope it will be quick and painless. But I am not worried about going to heaven or hell because I know they don't exist.

Jealously those who refuse to acknowledge such possibilities as being just as real today as they were for our ancestors esque their peity for the matle of cold hard show me or it doesnt exist science (which is the newest of religions in its own way...the anti religion)
No, science is not a religion. It does not depend upon faith, but upon facts. You must prove your assertions in science. You can't simply get away with, "This is so because God told me it was."

So powerful is this jealousy that the faithless feel the need to tell all people who wish to believe in somthing higher than themselves that any who do would be branded as deluded or stupid, even when such is not true. We who are faithful should not be defrauded by such hucksters claiming to know the answers with science alone.
Very few of us have any interest in forcing others to throw away their faith. In fact, many of us fear that those who do good only because they fear their gods should definitely retain their faith, if only to protect the rest of us. What we are fighting against are the religions which are constantly battling to suppress free thought and exploration. They don't want people learning how the universe works because that diminishes the likelihood of their gods.

The truth (as I see it) is that the universe is a wonderous thing of incalcuably divine design quite litterally a miracle in its own right and proof enough of the existeance of my God.
I also find the universe a wondrous thing of incalculable beauty, even more marvelous because it was brought about so randomly. I don't need to posit a creator for it. That doesn't make it any less beautiful.

Many cosmologists such as Einstien shared such faith.
"I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it." (Albert Einstein, 1954)

I have personally experienced the power of prayer and meditation (something which the science of noetics is just begining to unraveal but few are willing to accept. I believe there is an afterlife. Our time in this world may be fleeting and brief but our souls are as eternal as the stars from which we come.
I have already noted that prayer, like meditation, can have a calming effect on someone, which can indeed influence their health and well being. Reducing stress is very important. But studies done regarding people praying for others has shown that it has no significant effects, and in some cases can even provide negative effects. Noetics is still in its infancy, but has not gotten beyond that same idea, that meditation (or prayer) can help us reduce stress levels. It is being studied, and if it can show solid evidence through controlled, reproducible experiments, it may yet work its way into the mainstream of science. But that still has nothing to do with the existence of gods. Or souls.

That's life with faith. Live with it or not (your choice), but don't tell me how to live my life or what to believe or that becuase I have faith I am deluded or taken in by hucksters etc just becuase you dont share my faith and I will not tell you how to live your life without it..........then perhaps we can both stay peacefully out of each others way.
Once more for the record: I have no objections to your living with faith. I have no objections to anyone living with faith. It's a personal choice, and I've made my choice to live without it. But if you are basing your faith on the teachings of a minister or preacher or imam or rabbi or whatever without actually studying it to learn what it's really about, then you are simply allowing yourself to be led. And if you are actually paying these people to lead you around then you have been taken in by them. And if you can ignore the harm that they do, then I can only believe that you must be deluded as well.