Did the gods (god) create us?

[denuseri]

No. there is only the certainty, or feeling, in one's own heart.

Even that can feel uncertian...probabely why Kierkegard called it "the leap of faith" where one embraces a belief in spite of it's irationality.



I do not think that there is a need to be pious. Are the gods a threat?

That all depends upon ones view of who and what the Gods are/were and their intentions etc. Not to mention that being pious didnt nessesaraly mean being afriad so much as respectful.

In many ways the ancient gods were to be "feared" or respected as much for what evil they could do as good; just as much if not more so than the relativly modern concept (by comparrison) of a monothesist's diety. Allmost every single hero or nymph that came into contact with westren gods of mythology regretted it in the end, paticularly amongst the Greeks, though their gods need for sardonic irony and revenge over what some may consider to be petty slights paled in comparrison to many other belief systems in the new world, africa, and the far east.

But neither do I think that scientific explanations takes the wonder away, rather, it makes it even more wondrous :-)

No do I, I never said it did. If anything I find it truely awe inspireing, and the more I learn of creation, the more perplexingly of a wonderous marvel do I find it to behold. Additonally...its a common miconseption that all religions esque science...some (such as my own faith of the Bahai) embrace it.



I am not as clear headed today as I would like to be..Do you mean that there is a developement from many gods towards one, and that this is sort of better?

Well historically speaking, that is what has happened allmost worldwide, at least with all the majior faiths but I am not saying its any better or worse than any other way of doing it alltough in every polytheist religion one still finds a surpreme deity who rules over the others and in some cases a single god (such as Shiva for instance) has many facets or forms that may be taken.

In other words...I believe in all paths to God and furthermore: I see "science" as yet just another of those many paths.

Anyway I have heard this, and do not see the logic of it. But most especiallly monotheism lends itself so easily to dogmatism and abuse of power. It is no acident that many kings accepted Christianity so readily! (While in many cases the populations either hung back, or simply incoporated the new belief into already existing ones.)

If one makes a close study of history one shall find that the Christans and Muslims in no way shape or form hold the monopoly on such things.

Perturbed, yes, nessarily scared. But is struck me, reading the book I mentioned before, that in medieval times most Christians were extremely scared of death, because of all the ideas of Hell thrown at them. I find this so unfair, thinking of all the other things they had to deal with in those times.

And yet the Romans often wrote of those very same Christians facing the lions in the arena with a smile on their lips.

[thir]

But neither do I think that scientific explanations takes the wonder away, rather, it makes it even more wondrous :-)

No do I, I never said it did. If anything I find it truely awe inspireing, and the more I learn of creation, the more perplexingly of a wonderous marvel do I find it to behold. Additonally...its a common miconseption that all religions esque science...some (such as my own faith of the Bahai) embrace it.

Yes, I should have said that that was a general comment, not meant as a comment to you. I remember what you have said about this before, and find it of interest that your religion embraces science. Many religious people do, but not, as far as I know, their religion as such. They are divided on that topic.

And yet the Romans often wrote of those very same Christians facing the lions in the arena with a smile on their lips.

Yes, but much can happen to a religion over the centuries.

[Thorne]

And yet the Romans often wrote of those very same Christians facing the lions in the arena with a smile on their lips.

I think you will find that the concept of hell, or at least the Christian concept of hell, wasn't defined until much later in the Church's history. When you truly believe that you will be rewarded with eternal life in a beautiful place under the protection of a beneficent God, why should you fear death? And without the concept of hell, what's the downside? That you will be dead. No more torments, no more hunger, no more pain.

I wonder if that could have been a motivation for the idea of hell? Not only can you terrify people into following your arbitrary rules under threat of eternal damnation, you also prevent them from killing themselves, or allowing themselves to be killed, as a way to get out from under the thumb of a ruthless lord or church leader.