Friendship

[thir]

My two brothers-in-law state categorically that men and women cannot be friends! That is to say, there will always be someting sexual in the way.
Most women I talk to disagree.

What do you think?

[Thorne]

My two brothers-in-law state categorically that men and women cannot be friends! That is to say, there will always be someting sexual in the way.
Most women I talk to disagree.

What do you think?

I don't think that there's any reason that men and women cannot be just friends. However, if they are heterosexual there is bound to be at least a certain element of sexual tension between them. It does not necessarily mean that they will end up in bed together, but there is bound to be at least some semblance of sexual attraction, especially if they are close friends.

[denuseri]

Hey who says being friends precludes sexual attraction anyway?

Like, I know I turn on my nephews by just basically being there, I can tell, but that doesn't mean they stop being my nephews all of the sudden just becuase they "got wood" in their pockets.

Same goes with friends...of any sex.

So I say one can be sexually attracted to another person all day long and still manage to be "friends" so long as they have even a small amount of common sence and self disipline.

[Thorne]

Hey who says being friends precludes sexual attraction anyway?

No reason friends can't be sexually attracted. It's when the attraction is strong and mutual that friendships turn to romances. Which can also work. I've been friends with my wife for 40+years, and the attraction is still there.

Like, I know I turn on my nephews by just basically being there, I can tell, but that doesn't mean they stop being my nephews all of the sudden just becuase they "got wood" in their pockets.

LOL! I'll bet you turn on a lot of boys, anywhere you go.

So I say one can be sexually attracted to another person all day long and still manage to be "friends" so long as they have even a small amount of common sence and self disipline.

Yes, true. But common sense and self discipline seem to be rare commodities in this day and age, from my observations.

[DuncanONeil]

To put it simply I would have to say your brothers-in-law are wrong and the ladies are correct.
The rest will remain locked in here.

My two brothers-in-law state categorically that men and women cannot be friends! That is to say, there will always be someting sexual in the way.
Most women I talk to disagree.

What do you think?

[thir]

I don't think that there's any reason that men and women cannot be just friends. However, if they are heterosexual there is bound to be at least a certain element of sexual tension between them. It does not necessarily mean that they will end up in bed together, but there is bound to be at least some semblance of sexual attraction, especially if they are close friends.

That was what I was wondering: will there always be a sexual tension of sorts, just because you are of opposite sex? (Or same, for some) Is sex pushing so hard, and if so why? I mean, you eat when you are hungry, but it is not usual for most people in our societies to go hungry for longer periods.

Why must there be sexual attraction if you are close friends? I did not get that.

[thir]

Hey who says being friends precludes sexual attraction anyway?

The idea was that sexual attraction precludes friendship. I suppose because the sexual attraction 'pushes out' other feelings??

I have had sex with friends, and they are still friends. I have love without sex. And I have friendship without sex. And I have love and friendship and sex in one person - lucky me ;-)

But the impression I get, roughly speaking, is that a number of women think that friendship with men is possible, while a number of men think not -? And if so, why would that be?

Some say that men cannot be friends, that there is too much competition. What do the men say to that?

[Thorne]

That was what I was wondering: will there always be a sexual tension of sorts, just because you are of opposite sex? (Or same, for some) Is sex pushing so hard, and if so why? I mean, you eat when you are hungry, but it is not usual for most people in our societies to go hungry for longer periods.

Why must there be sexual attraction if you are close friends? I did not get that.

Sexuality is an integral part of our make-up, developed through millions of years of evolution to make opposite sexes attractive. It's part of the species imperative for procreation. So unless both friends are homosexual there will inevitably be at least some measure of sexual tension. With close friends you tend to spend a lot of time with one another, which tends to increase the emotional attraction, at least. This CAN, but does not necessarily, lead to sexual attraction, which is not the same as sexual tension.

That being said, there is also our intellectual abilities to compartmentalize, which can help to keep us from acting upon that tension or attraction. We can CHOOSE to be non-sexual. But the attraction/tension is still there, and if one of the friends becomes romantically involved with someone else it can create strains in the other friend. Jealousy is also a part of our genetic makeup, after all.

[thir]

Sexuality is an integral part of our make-up, developed through millions of years of evolution to make opposite sexes attractive. It's part of the species imperative for procreation. So unless both friends are homosexual there will inevitably be at least some measure of sexual tension. With close friends you tend to spend a lot of time with one another, which tends to increase the emotional attraction, at least. This CAN, but does not necessarily, lead to sexual attraction, which is not the same as sexual tension.

Excatly. Can, does not have to.
I see friendship as meaning that the feeling of friendship are the ones prevaling, not sexual attraction.

That being said, there is also our intellectual abilities to compartmentalize, which can help to keep us from acting upon that tension or attraction. We can CHOOSE to be non-sexual. But the attraction/tension is still there, and if one of the friends becomes romantically involved with someone else it can create strains in the other friend. Jealousy is also a part of our genetic makeup, after all.

Q: How do you distinguish between sexual attraction and sexual tension?

Apart from that, it sounds a bit like you think that because we are wired to reproduce, sexual attraction almost certainly must develope between two persons of opposite sex, regardless (more or less) of the situation. (When talking hetereosexually orientated people, obviously.) But why should that be the case? We do not copulate non-stop. We do not
feel like having sex with every person we meet, or every person we come close to. At least,I do not think so.

I think it can happen if a person happens to be needing sex - but still not nessecarily.

As for jealousy being part of our genetic make-up I do not really believe that. I think it is expectations and habit of thinking.
I know both men and women who are not jealous, and for my own part I have learned that if there is no fear of loosing and no neglect of my needs, I am not jealousy. I have experienced this. He could have sex with another women right next to me, and I did not care. I am not sure monogamy is a default either, but a choice.

What do others think of this?

[Thorne]

Apart from that, it sounds a bit like you think that because we are wired to reproduce, sexual attraction almost certainly must develope between two persons of opposite sex, regardless (more or less) of the situation.

Actually, I don't think it's inevitable. People are not attracted to everyone of the opposite sex, of course. But I think establishing a friendship first brings about a large degree of familiarity between people, and that familiarity CAN develop into a sexual attraction more easily.

As for jealousy being part of our genetic make-up I do not really believe that. I think it is expectations and habit of thinking.
I know both men and women who are not jealous, and for my own part I have learned that if there is no fear of loosing and no neglect of my needs, I am not jealousy. I have experienced this. He could have sex with another women right next to me, and I did not care. I am not sure monogamy is a default either, but a choice.

Perhaps jealousy is too strong a term for what I was saying. Envy may be more accurate. True, some people feel it more than others, and some may not feel it at all. One thing that's true for all of us is that there is nothing that is true of all of us.

[DuncanONeil]

Some say that men cannot be friends, that there is too much competition. What do the men say to that?

Can not be friends with whom? Other men? Entirely possible!

[Thorne]

Can not be friends with whom? Other men? Entirely possible!

Let's not get pedantic, Duncan. The OP is about men and women being friends. Unless specifically stated otherwise, all comments and questions should be assumed to relate to that point, don't you think?

[DuncanONeil]

Let's not get pedantic, Duncan. The OP is about men and women being friends. Unless specifically stated otherwise, all comments and questions should be assumed to relate to that point, don't you think?

This started with a question about men and women being friend. I.e cross gender friendship, which implies same gender friendships are easy and accepted.
That is probably what engender the question. Since the assumption that men can be friends and women can be friends is explicit in the question asked.

[Lafarian]

Well, maybe I just don't have a lot of close female friends any more, but the female friends I do have are literally labeled in my brain as 'people' before 'female'. Unless the whole 'love at first sight' phenomenon occurs; I might appreciate the aesthetic beauty of a woman as far as me knowing my surroundings but rarely will sexual feelings- ever get involved in the social contexts I am in when hanging around the female friends I do have.

So maybe I'm just looking at this question from a somewhat... inexperienced/rusty point of view? Because I do believe cross-gender friendships are wholly possible, when both parties are in understanding that they are both 'human' before a certain gender.

Than again when relationships are forged, barriers are broken- and knowing a person well makes the cannon ball into a bomb-shell. At first the skirmishes of chaotic feelings with rapport, before a possible full blown war of emotion occurs.

In hindsight, I might be thinking in circles. Ahhh-well.

[Thorne]

In hindsight, I might be thinking in circles.

I find this happening quite frequently whenever I try to understand women.

But I tend to agree, we are all human, first, and gender second. I don't claim that any friendship between the sexes MUST become sexual, just that, under the right circumstances, it COULD become sexual, and the more friendly and knowledgeable the two are the more likely that some sexual feelings will occur under those circumstances.

If you are never really alone together, always with other friends or in public places, so that there is no real opportunity for intimacy, the chances are very remote. If one, or both, are involved with someone else, the chances are remote. But if neither has a romantic partner, and placed into an intimate setting with no one else around, the possibility of having some kind of sexual activity is increased. Not inevitable, but possible.

[brwneydgirl]

If one, or both, are involved with someone else, the chances are remote.

I don't agree with this at all given the context of the OP's question. It makes no difference if one or both of the parties (friends) are involved with other people. If they are friends, there will most likely be some sort of sexual tension. No matter what their status is outside of that friendship. Whether they choose to ACT on it MAY depend on what their status is...but not whether or not the tension is there.

[Thorne]

I don't agree with this at all given the context of the OP's question. It makes no difference if one or both of the parties (friends) are involved with other people. If they are friends, there will most likely be some sort of sexual tension. No matter what their status is outside of that friendship. Whether they choose to ACT on it MAY depend on what their status is...but not whether or not the tension is there.

Yes, the tension would remain, but the chances of actually becoming sexually active with one another decrease if either or both are involved with someone else.

[Lion]

Based on personal experience, men and women can be friends.

Personally, my roommate is female, and a friend. We're comfortable enough with each other to chill on her bed with no sexual overtones, hell we've fallen asleep on the same bed a few times.

My best friend is female. In her case, I am attracted to her, but since I know it won't ever lead to anything, I haven't done anything to persue her. Idk how that will end if it does.

My other really good friend from high school is female. We've kept touch over the years. She and I often have long lunches to talk about any and everything. It's an amazing way to get a perspective from a different gender. I can say with no doubt that there is nothing sexual between us.

So, to iterate what I said earlier, yes, yes men and women can be friends and just friends. It might be harder with specific people, but it can work if you and the other person just click, and not in a sexual/romantic way.

[thir]

One thing that's true for all of us is that there is nothing that is true of all of us.

Well said.

[thir]

I don't agree with this at all given the context of the OP's question. It makes no difference if one or both of the parties (friends) are involved with other people. If they are friends, there will most likely be some sort of sexual tension. No matter what their status is outside of that friendship.

But why? What do you think about the 'being people before gender' thought that some here has voiced?

[brwneydgirl]

But why? What do you think about the 'being people before gender' thought that some here has voiced?

For example, Lion's post about being "friends only" with his roommate and highschool chum. While I don't doubt his word, I DO find it difficult to believe that a man and woman can be friends...very close friends and have NO sexual tension there (obviously given that both parties are straight). You're comfortable with each other, there is something tangible that you genuinely enjoy about the other person. Maybe I'm shortsighted but I say, given the right set of circumstances, those two friends have thought about taking things further.

I suppose you could argue that you're not attracted to ALL of your friends...and of course, no one is attracted to EVERYONE. But how many truly unattractive friends do you have (of the opposite gender)? I have quite a few male friends...and I find most of them to be at least moderately attractive. Does this mean I'd like to jump into bed with all of them? No. But we do tease each other and make "off color" comments to each other...does that constitute "sexual tension"?

[IAN 2411]

I find this happening quite frequently whenever I try to understand women.

I gave up on that idea one year into marraige, and decided to go with the flow it was more entertaining.

[thir]

[QUOTE=brwneydgirl;898426
I have quite a few male friends...and I find most of them to be at least moderately attractive. Does this mean I'd like to jump into bed with all of them? No. But we do tease each other and make "off color" comments to each other...does that constitute "sexual tension"?[/QUOTE]

I've been wondering whether it is simply a cultural habit, flirting? We do not seem to do it as much here.

[Lion]

For example, Lion's post about being "friends only" with his roommate and highschool chum. While I don't doubt his word, I DO find it difficult to believe that a man and woman can be friends...very close friends and have NO sexual tension there (obviously given that both parties are straight). You're comfortable with each other, there is something tangible that you genuinely enjoy about the other person. Maybe I'm shortsighted but I say, given the right set of circumstances, those two friends have thought about taking things further.

I suppose you could argue that you're not attracted to ALL of your friends...and of course, no one is attracted to EVERYONE. But how many truly unattractive friends do you have (of the opposite gender)? I have quite a few male friends...and I find most of them to be at least moderately attractive. Does this mean I'd like to jump into bed with all of them? No. But we do tease each other and make "off color" comments to each other...does that constitute "sexual tension"?

Regarding my roommate, we talk about each other's sex lives. We're open like that, and it hasn't made me feel uncomfortable (I don't imagine it makes her uncomfortable as well since she brings up the topic a fair bit). And my friend from high school, sex is not a topic of conversation for us. Not because we avoid it, but it's just something that never popped into our minds. Think about talking about sex with a sibling, this pretty much fits the mood.

I can say though that cross-gender friendships are not for everyone. Some people can have it, and some people can't.

[brwneydgirl]

I can say though that cross-gender friendships are not for everyone. Some people can have it, and some people can't.

I can have friendships...they just happen to include a bit of mutual flirting or ribbing. And I like it like that...almost puts a bit of fire in my blood for some reason.

[thir]

I have quite a few male friends...and I find most of them to be at least moderately attractive. Does this mean I'd like to jump into bed with all of them? No. But we do tease each other and make "off color" comments to each other...does that constitute "sexual tension"?

Maybe just a sort of easy "sexual awareness"??