Male submissives

[voxelectronica]

I'll give you that, grudgingly. LOL.

She blinded me with science!

[Ozme52]

So after reading this all I have to say is OMG!

I never realized that I was *lucky*. My first encounter with a male sub was what made me be a switch because *he* was that good. He would say things like "i like it when you do this, what else do you want?"... the entire thing was almost... innocent in nature.

I'm still very selective to who I talk to and wont engage in conversation that's at all sexual in nature until *I* choose to make that the topic. So far my lucks been pretty good with this approach. I would however love it, if there were more male subs who contributed to the site.

I am leaning towards Fetish's idea as another contributing factor though.

We make our own luck vox.

[Ozme52]

she blinded me with science!

[yama]

Thank you thir - or am I supposed to say Ma'am? I am ready
to bow down before you, really.

Thank you very much for your enlightening post. I start seeing
what is it about. Obviously I had no problem with Lila because we
were already close friends when the SM relationship started. But,
as I have pointed out, there were cases when she lead me in
a surprising direction, and I always followed her lead, even
enjoying my submission. (She accepts ideas from me, though.)

Without previous acquaintance, if I offered myself as a slave,
I would have a strong decision that I would seek what pleases
my Mistress/Master, giving up my own ideas. (I am here with the
same intention, ready to give up my ideas, be as docile as I can.)
Without this, I can well imagine that the Mistress/Master sends
away her/his incorrect sub. I can see what is the problem.

Thank you very much and very humbly again, your were
really very kind in answering me.

No, absolutely not. IMO there is not way that is better than another, even if you'll meet people who'll say that their particular way is the way not just for them, but for eveyone. Just ignore them ;-) The point is that the people in question are happy.

And that is where the problem may be. If, for instance, one of the partners is not honest about what he/she wants - say the have the fantasy of wanting to be a slave, but do not what to do this in reality. This is ok and what many want, but should be said openly, as many people waste time and energy and eventually their hopes of finding a good matching partner because they have to go through so many people who do not admit what they are really after.

The other problem that can arise is that in some cases the sub just want his/her needs met, without having anything to offer.
I am sorry to say this, but I have also encountered subs, male subs mostly, who saw me as some sort of tool to satisfy them, not as a partner in a relationship who also happens to want something out of the whole thing.

That said, this is of course not to mean all male subs, I have met some truly wonderful subs as well :-)

[voxelectronica]

We make our own luck vox.

so I'm going to have just a tad rant here... sorry.

On another site my profile clearly says gender queer with Male persona while Dominating and that terms like Domme or Ma'am do not suit me. I get soooo many people messaging me with Ma'am...

I just delete them.

[yama]

Dear Dave, I avoid chat rooms for the same reason
you describe so well. Forums are much better. Some may
have the ability to follow chats, I have not.

May I bring up an off-topic subject? I don't want to start a new thread
just for that. In your post I can see that you use lowercase "i" in the
pronoun "I". I have seen it in many posts of subs. First I thought
it was just a superficial typing, but I had a chat session with a gentleman
who demanded me using a lowercase "i", and made me understand that
it was a humiliation. Well, I loved it, only I kept making mistakes,
and was always punished painfully for those. It was OK with me,
I loved the punishments, too. I am in full peace with the thing.

But I want to ask (not just Dave, but everybody): am I supposed
to use lowercase "i" on the Forums, too? If I am, I will be glad to do it,
I really want to humiliate myself in every possible way. Only it will
slow down my typing, I am used to the opposite. And I will do lots of
mistakes, of course.

So please let me know what am I supposed to do. I will be docile
and obedient. Thank you very much.

Hi - As a male sub i joined this site a couple of months ago. While i have looked around the site i spend most of my time in the tasking arena. I originally said the 'hello' thing and was welcome by a number of people. But other than the tasking i have not been involved with other aspects of the site. i have gone to chat rooms a couple of times but spent my time there as an observer - trying to find out who's talking to who. i find it fairly confusing. When i have more time i would like to chat - but i'm not sure i'll ever be comfortable in a chat room with 18 people talking and i don't know who's talking to who. maybe i can participate in these forums more where at least everyone is talking about the same topic. - Just adding my 2 cents. Thanks.

[Ozme52]

yama, some insist on upper and lower case usage as a protocol... some don't.

Regardless of your own preference (now or in the future,) please don't adopt the practice of using both when you don't know the orientation of the reader... or when you are addressing both orientations...

Because W/we A/all really hate it when P/people take I/it to excess.

[lucy]

Originally Posted by DaveAM View Post
Hi - As a male sub i joined this site a couple of months ago. While i have looked around the site i spend most of my time in the tasking arena. I originally said the 'hello' thing and was welcome by a number of people. But other than the tasking i have not been involved with other aspects of the site. i have gone to chat rooms a couple of times but spent my time there as an observer - trying to find out who's talking to who. i find it fairly confusing. When i have more time i would like to chat - but i'm not sure i'll ever be comfortable in a chat room with 18 people talking and i don't know who's talking to who. maybe i can participate in these forums more where at least everyone is talking about the same topic. - Just adding my 2 cents. Thanks.

You can always go to a private room to talk with someone. I'm one of those too who can't follow a discussion in the chat's main room, so if i go there i usually end up going to a private room.

[voxelectronica]

.

Because W/we A/all really hate it when P/people take I/it to excess.

sometimes I really think you might be better than ice cream.... sometimes.

[yama]

But it is, imo, appropriate that the dominant directs how and when the submissive's desires get realized.

Our roles are different, and complementary.

I understand you, Sir, and I fully agree. A submissive must submit.
Even a sadist/masochist or fetish top/bottom relationship means a
sort of domination/submission, only not necessarily in all area of life.
I hope I could make clear that I really submit to my dominant girl,
even if she has surprises for me. And I would obey her if she wanted
to dominate me on other areas. My craving for being humiliated could
make me a real slave. But neither of us is interested in that.

Thank you for your reply. I found it late, because as a silly girl I started
to read the thread at its end. Sorry, Sir. When putting clamps on me,
please remember my misdeed and make them tight.

(Referring to a former conversation on the "Clamps on the clit?" thread.)

[yama]

Because W/we A/all really hate it when P/people take I/it to excess.

T/thank Y/you, S/sir, I/i T/hink I/i W/will K/keep M/my F/former P/practice.

I can see now that lowercase "i" is not obligatory. I want to obey every real rule,
but I don't feel this a self-humiliation. A protocol, as you say. And it was rather
difficult to learn English spelling... I hope everyone will understand.

Thank you for teaching me. Your posts are so clear.

[moonlitsub]

Jez, wow I threw this thread up expecting a few replys four maybe tops it gets me kind of gitty to see all this conversation from silly little me. I have to throw my two cents in now though. I love talking to anyone who is fetishist or d/s or what ever. I find myself blending into lots of "alternative" cultures also being bi I find that the Domme/sub relationship and the Dom/sub relationships to be completely different. I would love to chat on here more but my I am currently in what I would call an apprenticeship and my job takes most my life. I wanted to give my thoughts on points to some things people have said through out the thread.

First being how men are raised to take the lead. I find this true but only in some instances and this ideal is being slowly bled away as women are raised to lead there own career lives and so on. Yet still in some instances like in a vanilla relationship the guy is expected to take the lead, and if not he tends to fall into the dreaded friend category. Also in a d/s relationship I think a Dom/me can sit back and let the sub do all the work as long as there are specific orders and guidelines already set up.

Also as being a male sub who has frequented this site on and off for about three years (I changed screen names for certain reasons.) that I would love to converse more but I find myself so limited in this online dialog and enjoy face to face, or face to feet depending on how restrictive the Dom/me is
which brings me to a question I have for the people here, I work in a kitchen overnight and my boss is pretty chill well a chill as a short french man can be but I keep wanting to ask for specific days off (one day every month) so I can go to the monthly munch in the area, but he knows me I don't ask for days off unless its important, so I don't know what to tell him so I can get said day off without having to trounce out my whole sexual lifestyle. Any suggestions ladies and gents?

I think this is satisfactory and it makes sense but then again I all caffeined up.

[shayna{L_D}]

[Mr_Clock]

First time poster... and first day on the forum. I wanted to respond to moonlitsub's original question with my two cents. I haven't been on this site because I feel like being a male sub is such a minority already and from playing on the yahoo rp chat rooms that trying to find a woman just interested in online play is very hard. So I've been discouraged and haven't looked.

Additionally (and more of a side note) I don't know if it's just me, but while I have fantasies about femdom I find that when I read a story involving femdom, or watch a video I'm not nearly as turned on as I thought I might be. Perhaps this supports the theory that men are looking to have a specific script acted on.

[DaveAM]

Dear Dave, I avoid chat rooms for the same reason
you describe so well. Forums are much better. Some may
have the ability to follow chats, I have not.

But I want to ask (not just Dave, but everybody): am I supposed
to use lowercase "i" on the Forums, too? If I am, I will be glad to do it,
I really want to humiliate myself in every possible way. Only it will
slow down my typing, I am used to the opposite. And I will do lots of
mistakes, of course.

Yama, i saw the use of lower case i in some of the stories i've read. i liked the idea of making myself less important in this small manner. i have no idea what others do or expect. If it slows down typing you probably don't want to bother unless you are directed to by a Master/Mistress.

Merry Christmas Everyone.

[moonlitsub]

hm... mindofasubpgh it could possibly be it just isn't want your looking for I know without realizing it that when I watch porn especially vanilla I usually see myself in the girls possition "taking it" or taking an image and instead of how vanilla guy see fucking the girl I just see her topping my subby ass. Also even more so I know what you mean I seem to have different taste then what the professionals think is good, or writers (so I just write my own stuff.) but I find that a lot of porn vanilla, fetish or other isn't as great as it could be. I also remember the saying that we are the ones that knows what turns us on the most.

[yama]

Dear Dave, thank you for your useful reply. I will use lowercase "i" without any hesitation if somebody declares that she/he is offended by my uppercase "I"s. I accept this correction not only from dominants but from submissives, too. Nothing want I less than to offend anybody.

It is only that I trust the judgement of Sir Oz very much, and will base on it and my own clumsyness till there aren't other reasons. And I can see myself that the use of lowercase is widespread but not general.

So much for the Forums. Messaging to a Dominant, male or female, I feel natural the use of lowercase "i" and uppercase "You". D/double C/characters I don't understand and will not use.

Thank you again very much indeed. Merry Christmas to you and everybody.

Yama, i saw the use of lower case i in some of the stories i've read. i liked the idea of making myself less important in this small manner. i have no idea what others do or expect. If it slows down typing you probably don't want to bother unless you are directed to by a Master/Mistress.

[Mr_Clock]

Moonlit.. it is nice to see I'm not alone in my views.

[voxelectronica]

hm... mindofasubpgh it could possibly be it just isn't want your looking for I know without realizing it that when I watch porn especially vanilla I usually see myself in the girls possition "taking it" or taking an image and instead of how vanilla guy see fucking the girl I just see her topping my subby ass.

I find this really interesting because I knew that I was at least a switch when I started watching porn and identifying in the male role... I knew it was totally true when I started imagining the male role as my role during vanilla sex.

[Mr_Clock]

It is interesting to see how one identiifes. I typically identify with the man in porn be it vanilla or something harder. However, when watching harder stuff (or reading a story) I do feel a bit of jealously watching the woman climax while restrained in one way or another.

[moonlitsub]

Actually for a long time I always thought that I was identifying with the man in the porn but it wasn't until I was able to admit to myself that it was the women I was identifying with. I find I keep only saying "this is what turns me on" and that is only the aspects about myself I am able to identify with.

[Lisais mine]

It is interesting to see how one identiifes. I typically identify with the man in porn be it vanilla or something harder. However, when watching harder stuff (or reading a story) I do feel a bit of jealously watching the woman climax while restrained in one way or another.

It really is interesting. bryan'sgrrl and I were looking at bdsm porn over at this morning, when we realized that I'm more interested in pictures of girls faces- when they look a little nervous(because that face or a whimper isthe hottest thing to me). she likes to see that strong Dom arm or face.

and Oz, I think you are right about the "topping from the Bottom thing. if I had a sub who thought they could control the scene we were in, I would love it- it's a chance to disabuse them of the idea they had that power. communication needs or desires is fine. but if I'm in charge, I'm in charge.

[voxelectronica]

It really is interesting. bryan'sgrrl and I were looking at bdsm porn over at this morning, when we realized that I'm more interested in pictures of girls faces- when they look a little nervous(because that face or a whimper isthe hottest thing to me).

mmmm yeah. I don't have to watch anything else but her face.

[moonlitsub]

Sigh I wish I could pin down what really really really gets me going, some days it lips of a close friend as she tells me a story for awhile it was when I burned myself at work (500 degree ovens) and that lasting pulsing pain, one that always works is blood seeping out of my skin. In porn itself I don't think it is actual images from the porn I tend to take the people I see in all there fully exposed splendor and create fantasies in my mind with them.

[markus_valtion]

i'm a male sub. or at least i think i am but i'm still learing. i hope i can put in my 2 cents as well

In my limited experience of 2 years, I have found that most of the male "submissives" are actually fetish bottoms. They don't actually want to "submit" to anything other than their ideal of a female dominant wearing the appropriate fetish costume and, as jeanne pointed out, who follows some kind of scripted fantasy the bottom wants fulfilled. The "dominant" is nothing more than their life-sized blow-up doll....a masturbatory sex object. When these supposedly submissive males are asked what they will do to please their dominants, it's always something like "lick your feet" (foot fetish, anyone?) or "service you orally" (um..yeah...'cause I'm not fucking you after I spit cheese all over you....sorry). This is why pro-doms exist, otherwise known as dominatrices. Pay me a couple hundred dollars, and I'll be glad to put on a blonde wig, corset, and thigh-high boots and let you "worship" my feet. hahahahahahaha

i agree with you. there are alot of people who just see it as a thrill but dont want to be out of control. and to me thats the main thing of being a sub. to not be incontrol. i love the feeling of being out of controle. and i'm only truly happy to please my partner.

also communication is more difficult for a man. at least for me it is. but i do my best . its difficult at time but aslong as your patient and keep going things will always work out. i guess some people just dont want to put in the effort.

[db05]

I think that part of the problem is the very thin line between having limits and preferences vs. a "script". I've had Dommes comment to me on other forums that it is ridiculous for subs to try to set out very specific do's and don'ts; that they're taking the Domme's power.

On the other hand, we all have things that work for us and things that don't. To me (and I mean no offense to anyone whatever their own likes and dislikes) the whole ritualistic Domm(me)/sub "Master/Mistress" interaction along with stereotyped costumes (leather and/or latex) make the whole thing seem something of a game. It seems a bit like dressing up in Star Trek garb and learning to speak Klingonese. And I happen to not be into pain also. This doesn't make these things wrong, but they're not right for me.

To me the greatest area of female power is their sexual power. And I don't think a woman has to wear leather or be called Mistress to exert her power over men. I truly believe that almost all men want to serve women but many are too proud to admit it! I am totally thrilled when a woman uses my sexual excitement to subdue me and makes me totally submit to her.

[numenor]

The simple answer is that even in a community that is suppose to be open minded us male submissive are often totally misunderstood. we are looked at as freaks as if we are doing something wrong

Just my thoughts…
That is possible, but the female Doms that I know who have male collars don't feel that way. I like to think that I don't feel that way either, I am not sure that I have consciously thought of any submissive as doing "something wrong" I am not sure that I can relate directly. However, I think others have the key to it - that the dearth of communication provides no approach vector to engage in polite or maybe not so polite conversation. When you talk to someone it is much easier to ask questions and query responses, which implicitly provide positive feedback to the person that you are talking to (the "Yes, I am listening to you, and I want to know what you think/feel/want" effect). Without that interplay male subs may not feel welcomed to most conversations and having the desire combined with the fear of not being accepted just go looking elsewhere. This is compounded by the perceived lack of presence of male subs in the forums (which is not accurate there seems to be lots who post to the intro area) while there appears to be a plethora of female subs (I believe the fem subs have their own subforum – not an attack just an observation). If I miss my mark that Womb subforum is run by/for fem subs while the male subs don’t support each other… yet another example of “male non-communicativeness”.

There may be another psychological effect occurring, with more self identified male subs who want a highly scripted play with no deviation being more willing to speak up and approach, because that is safe and known to them instead of unknown regardless of their deeper desires to be dominated.

I do know that many people have a hard time communicating and perceive many comments as negative when those very comments could be construed as either constructive or neutral.
Jay

[numenor]

[QUOTE=moonlitsub;786898]...I work in a kitchen overnight and my boss is pretty chill well a chill as a short french man can be but I keep wanting to ask for specific days off (one day every month) so I can go to the monthly munch in the area, but he knows me I don't ask for days off unless its important, so I don't know what to tell him so I can get said day off without having to trounce out my whole sexual lifestyle. Any suggestions ladies and gents?
[QUOTE]
Chill=Boss
you=you

you: Chill some of my friends get together every month and spend time together, i don't usually go because i work and they understand that, but a few of them have asked me multiple times and have been giving me crap because they say i am being "antisocial" <you could let Chill know that you are trying to be more social with your friends and that is something that you are working on - which puts more power in his hands, not sure if you are comfortable with that but it might work, then Chill is provided with an oprotunity to be supprotive to you>. i don't want to be rude but i couldn't say yes until i asked for a day off, could i have <insert day off here>.

i got invited to go to a <insert event here e.g. party, get together with friends, etc. >. i don't want to be rude but i couldn't say yes until i asked for a day off, could i have <insert day off here>.

[IAN 2411]

In my limited experience of 2 years, I have found that most of the male "submissives" are actually fetish bottoms. They don't actually want to "submit" to anything other than their ideal of a female dominant wearing the appropriate fetish costume and, as jeanne pointed out, who follows some kind of scripted fantasy the bottom wants fulfilled. The "dominant" is nothing more than their life-sized blow-up doll....a masturbatory sex object. When these supposedly submissive males are asked what they will do to please their dominants, it's always something like "lick your feet" (foot fetish, anyone?) or "service you orally" (um..yeah...'cause I'm not fucking you after I spit cheese all over you....sorry). This is why pro-doms exist, otherwise known as dominatrices. Pay me a couple hundred dollars, and I'll be glad to put on a blonde wig, corset, and thigh-high boots and let you "worship" my feet. hahahahahahaha

Thankyou for that discription, i love it.

I wrote in this thread before the crash, and I have just read all the posts to refresh my mind. I have to admit that I only joined this site just less than four months ago. In that time I have written a few posts, and read many threads, I have always been interested in BDSM, but unlike many I have failed to participate on a regular basis. There are many types of male submissive, and I too have noticed that many that post their first post are never seen again. I think that you have to blame that on magazines, and the type of books that I write, because the males are all young, and are all looking for a Fem/Dom. They are all looking for that beautiful Fem/Dom with the hour glass figure and the long blonde hair, it is not BDSM they are after it is lust, but anyone that knows anything about women, and reads the adverts in those magazines, that there is a painful price to pay just to get close to them. I also believe that if they all got what they were asking of the Fem/Dom just once, 80% would never be seen outside their house let alone on a BDSM site ever again.

I am a sub but nothing special, I was a Master at my work and respected by my peers during the day, but at night I was the opposite. My wife died 18 months ago, and although it was a vanilla marriage, even now I’m not sure if we were not playing a game with each other, and without the other knowing. I would do all she asked and without question, I would let her win the argument even when she was wrong. She would strike out with her hand if something was done wrong; I dared to show my feelings for fear of another strike. She would screw a jaw, or give a little jab, but there was always room for love afterwards. Her eyes never left me when at weddings and parties; I would always look around and see her smiling at me, jealousy, possessiveness, or protectiveness? She made the decisions and she made the plans, there was never shall we, or can we? It was always we are and we can, and I let her do it, she was domineering and I was her sub, and if she said get down and kiss my ass I would have done it, well she had a very nice ass. Just to throw a little more light, there was BDSM before ever I married her 31 years ago. If these young subs had to come in with their real name, instead of a username, they would have a little more respect for the Domms they are talking too, a person can only gain respect by giving respect.

I am not sure if all men are bad communicators, but I am with women and always have been. I fear them a little, and mostly because they can hurt by just verbally chastising. A woman or girl could never hurt me physically to the extent I would not want to see them again, but verbally they are awesome, and having said that my first wife could always bring tears to my eyes. Some things that women and girls have said to me over the years have hurt, and some that have done it unintentionally I have avoided for a long time afterwards. Yes I go into chat and sometimes I participate and sometime I just listen, and there are more female subs than male, but who gives a damn, I don’t? I go there because being there makes me feel liberated from the vanilla world, and the company is sound. I don’t think anyone thinks a male sub is a freak, apart from someone in the vanilla community, but what sub is going to tell them his secret anyway?

Regards Ian

[FirstBorn]

I have labeled myself a Dom/switch for my profile here.
Not that im a huge fan of labels really, i dont take pride or feel shame in having fantasies about dominating or submitting even when the topics turn to rape and permanent injury.
I have a lot more experience dominating than submitting, moreso than my fantasies would indicate but not to an extend where i feel i have to seek out a Domme no matter the costs (cash or emotional).

Really the sub in me is not looking for a godess or anything pretentius like that. I dont play that way as a Dom and dont want to as a sub. Come to think of what id really like is to be on the reciving end of a female version of my Dom self for a little while. I cant buy that and rarely get to talk to Dommes that i feel i have common ground with.

I did get in trouble commenting on the 21 replies a Domme in the personals got. I felt i was being polite and helpful but apparently others didnt and im sorry for that.

My comment was something to the effect, that she got plenty of offers from males apparently trying to be as generic and adaptable as possible. Im not saying theyr not allowed to be that way or that she shouldnt accept someone like that. But thats not what i look for in a sub and its not what i want to be for a Domme.

The point is slightly lost now with my post deleted and me living in europe only considering an online relationship anyways. But those were my five cents.