Male discrimination?

[thir]

Hotel Sky in Copenhagen have a floor exclusively for women, men no admittance. There are 20 rooms on this floor, and the hotel contains 821 rooms.

The hotel has been taken to court by an anonymous man for discimination. His argument is that "it is an expression of a strongly provoking and demonizing attitude towards men, that they are shut out of the women's floor because some women feel unsafe around men."


The hotel owner, Arne Bang Mikkelsen, argues as follows:" I do not understand this at all. Are women's and men's toilets also disciriminating, and are women's races?"

Who is right?

http://politiken.dk/turengaartil/rej...tage-i-retten/

http://newstonight.net/content/bella...lusively-women

[thir]

Further to this: I see that there are hotels with women-only floors also in New York, Vancouver, Washington DC, London, Singapore and I think somewhere in Germany.

[Punish_her]

I think there's a plethora of better examples of male discrimination out there. In this patyicular case, it is the usual "We assume the worst about men." There's no rational reason (of course women are far from rational) for the average woman to be afraid of the average man: the average man is not prone to violence or sexual assault.

[thir]

I think there's a plethora of better examples of male discrimination out there.

What are you thinking of here?

In this patyicular case, it is the usual "We assume the worst about men." There's no rational reason (of course women are far from rational) for the average woman to be afraid of the average man: the average man is not prone to violence or sexual assault.

Yes, you can see it as demonizing men, can't you? Or you can see it as a special service for women with a bad past. However, right now it is just a trend for rich women, noone else can afford those hotels anyway.

Of course women are just as rational as testosterone plagued men ;-)

[lucy]

I think there's a plethora of better examples of male discrimination out there.

Apart from child custody cases in divorces where men usually hold all the shitty cards, at least around here, I can't think of too many of them right now. But I'm tired and should be going home, so maybe it's just me.

In this patyicular case, it is the usual "We assume the worst about men."

No, it is a very unusual but highly welcome "We want to make our female guests feel welcome and secure."
Because, you know, many of those female guests actually might HAVE experienced the worst.

There's no rational reason (of course women are far from rational) for the average woman to be afraid of the average man: the average man is not prone to violence or sexual assault.

True. But: It doesn't take a majority of men to molest or rape a woman. One is quite enough.

(of course women are far from rational)

The only point where I agree with you: We who think with our cunts are about as irrational as you who think with your dicks. Or something like that. Or some other crap. Who cares.

Also, I call discrimination because I can't go walk the streets around the clubs in Zurich's West Side on a Friday or Saturday night on my own. Well, of course I could, but it wouldn't be a pleasant experience and I'm almost 100 % sure that I'd be at least verbally molested. I wouldn't even have to wear a short skirt.
I want to be able to go everywhere and at all times. The fact that I can't because I have no dick is (you guessed as much): Discrimination!!!!

[denuseri]

No, it is a very unusual but highly welcome "We want to make our female guests feel welcome and secure."
Because, you know, many of those female guests actually might HAVE experienced the worst.

One in every four women will experience violence directed against them solely due to the nature of their sex.

The only point where I agree with you: We who think with our cunts are about as irrational as you who think with your dicks.

Here Here! Applauds!

Also, I call discrimination because I can't go walk the streets around the clubs in Zurich's West Side on a Friday or Saturday night on my own. Well, of course I could, but it wouldn't be a pleasant experience and I'm almost 100 % sure that I'd be at least verbally molested. I wouldn't even have to wear a short skirt.
I want to be able to go everywhere and at all times. The fact that I can't because I have no dick is (you guessed as much): Discrimination!!!!

Its the same here in the States...which is why I have a license to carry...and do. Things like the stand your ground law can make a very big difference for women in surviving unscathed or not in a very real way if attacked outside the home.

Additionally:

An estimated 1.3 million women are victims of physical assault by an intimate partner each year.

85% of domestic violence victims are women.

Historically, females have been most often victimized by someone they knew.

Females who are 20-24 years of age are at the greatest risk of nonfatal intimate partner violence.

Most cases of domestic violence are never reported to the police.

Almost one-third of female homicide victims that are reported in police records are killed by an intimate partner.

In 70-80% of intimate partner homicides, no matter which partner was killed, the man physically abused the woman before the murder.

Less than one-fifth of victims reporting an injury from intimate partner violence sought medical treatment following the injury.

Intimate partner violence results in more than 18.5 million mental health care visits each year.

One in 6 women have experienced an full on attempted or completed rape.

Nearly 7.8 million women have been raped by an intimate partner at some point in their lives.

Sexual assault or forced sex occurs in approximately 40-45% of battering relationships.

1 in 12 women have been stalked in their lifetime.

81% of women stalked by a current or former intimate partner are also physically assaulted by that partner; 31% are also sexually assaulted by that partner.

Approximately 20% of the 1.5 million people who experience intimate partner violence annually obtain civil protection orders.

Approximately one-half of the orders obtained by women against intimate partners who physically assaulted them were violated.

More than two-thirds of the restraining orders against intimate partners who raped or stalked the victim were violated.

Department of Justice statistics revealed that women who resisted their attackers with the use of a firearm were twice as likely to survive a violent encounter unscathed as those who followed proactive "passive defensive means" (IE blowing a whistle, screaming for help, running away etc) and 4 times as likely to survive unscathed as those resisting through other means (IE martial arts, pepper spray, tasers etc).

[thir]

Department of Justice statistics revealed that women who resisted their attackers with the use of a firearm were twice as likely to survive a violent encounter unscathed as those who followed proactive "passive defensive means" (IE blowing a whistle, screaming for help, running away etc) and 4 times as likely to survive unscathed as those resisting through other means (IE martial arts, pepper spray, tasers etc).

There is an ongoing discussion about this, whether having a weapon means you just give your attacker one - that is the prevailing logic here, I think. But there is also the problem that if you kill someone with a weapon, and your attacker has none, you have to prove self-defense beyond any doubt, or you are the one going down.(Again, here.) An attitude I can both agree with and not.

In DK you cannot carry as much as a pepper spray - reason being a) your attacker would take it away and use it against you (same argument) or b) it might harm his eyes, and we cannot have that, can we? ( I kid you not, that is the argument!!)

Conditions in UK - every day a man dies from domestic violence. An overlooked fact.

To get back to the hotel: from what you write, the primary risk is in the home, so one could argue that there is no reason for a floor for women only in a hotel. Or, that it is not to be safe, but to feel safe, which is of course also important.

I agree there aught to be a men-only floor as well to avoid the demonizing effect, but there does not seem to be a need. Yet, anyway.

[Punish_her]

How's this for fucked up double standard,
On The Talk, a gaggle of female hosts joked and laughed about a man having his penis cut off by his bitter wife and thrown in the garbage disposal.
Rush Limbaugh loses advertisers for calling a girl a slut

[Punish_her]

bear with me here, i really haven't figured out how to use the quote feature

[QUOTE=denuseri;966034]Its the same here in the States...which is why I have a license to carry...and do. Things like the stand your ground law can make a very big difference for women in surviving unscathed or not in a very real way if attacked outside the home.

Additionally:

An estimated 1.3 million women are victims of physical assault by an intimate partner each year.

[QUOTE=denuseri;966034]85% of domestic violence victims are women.[QUOTE=denuseri;966034][

false, archer, 2000 showed that men and women strike each other at near equal rates

Historically, females have been most often victimized by someone they knew.

Females who are 20-24 years of age are at the greatest risk of nonfatal intimate partner violence.

[QUOTE=denuseri;966034][Most cases of domestic violence are never reported to the police.[QUOTE=denuseri;966034]

and reporting a fake one is a great way to get the upper hand in a divorce, just ask my uncle

Almost one-third of female homicide victims that are reported in police records are killed by an intimate partner.

[QUOTE=denuseri;966034]In 70-80% of intimate partner homicides, no matter which partner was killed, the man physically abused the woman before the murder.[QUOTE=denuseri;966034]

As Archer, 2000 has shown, men and women strike first at equal rates, women just don't leave a black eye

Less than one-fifth of victims reporting an injury from intimate partner violence sought medical treatment following the injury.

Intimate partner violence results in more than 18.5 million mental health care visits each year.

[QUOTE=denuseri;966034]
One in 6 women have experienced an full on attempted or completed rape..

The DOJ has admitted that with new DNA testing, the incidence of false rape acusations may be as high as 1 in 4

Nearly 7.8 million women have been raped by an intimate partner at some point in their lives.

Sexual assault or forced sex occurs in approximately 40-45% of battering relationships.

1 in 12 women have been stalked in their lifetime.

81% of women stalked by a current or former intimate partner are also physically assaulted by that partner; 31% are also sexually assaulted by that partner.

Approximately 20% of the 1.5 million people who experience intimate partner violence annually obtain civil protection orders.

Approximately one-half of the orders obtained by women against intimate partners who physically assaulted them were violated.

More than two-thirds of the restraining orders against intimate partners who raped or stalked the victim were violated.

Department of Justice statistics revealed that women who resisted their attackers with the use of a firearm were twice as likely to survive a violent encounter unscathed as those who followed proactive "passive defensive means" (IE blowing a whistle, screaming for help, running away etc) and 4 times as likely to survive unscathed as those resisting through other means (IE martial arts, pepper spray, tasers etc).

[Punish_her]

[QUOTE=lucy;965976]Apart from child custody cases in divorces where men usually hold all the shitty cards, at least around here, I can't think of too many of them right now. But I'm tired and should be going home, so maybe it's just me.


No, it is a very unusual but highly welcome "We want to make our female guests feel welcome and secure."
Because, you know, many of those female guests actually might HAVE experienced the worst.

Forced rape constitutes 6% of all violent crime. At the end of the day, when we're both walking down that dark street, I'm 3 times more likely than you to be the victim of a violent crime. Despite the fact that I'm clearly much more likeely to be attacked, no concessions are made to me.


True. But: It doesn't take a majority of men to molest or rape a woman. One is quite enough.


The only point where I agree with you: We who think with our cunts are about as irrational as you who think with your dicks. Or something like that. Or some other crap. Who cares.

Also, I call discrimination because I can't go walk the streets around the clubs in Zurich's West Side on a Friday or Saturday night on my own. Well, of course I could, but it wouldn't be a pleasant experience and I'm almost 100 % sure that I'd be at least verbally molested. I wouldn't even have to wear a short skirt.
I want to be able to go everywhere and at all times. The fact that I can't because I have no dick is (you guessed as much): Discrimination!!!!

Once again, having a dick would actually reduce your safety by about 300%. instead of looking up these facts and figures, which come from the DOJ, you immediately began throwing around a rape card. irrational

[Thorne]

I don't see any discrimination here. All I see are hotel chains catering to their clients. How is this any different from having smoking and non-smoking rooms?

If enough men requested it I'm sure they would have a MEN only floor, too. I would suggest in the basement. Next to the laundry.

[~Draegon~Faeire~]

What about a gentlemans club where women are not admitted. Is it not the very same thing ?

[IAN 2411]

What about a gentlemans club where women are not admitted. Is it not the very same thing ?

Very touchy subject here in the UK...I believe there is a case going through the European courts about that very fact...conjured up by a woman stating ..yes, you guessed it. "Discrimination." The question is, why would a woman want to join a gentlemen only club, when most men would be repelled by the idea of joining a men only club themselves.

From the capers I have seem women doing in some of the hotels I have stayed in...I think it would be fair to them to have an hotel to themselves not just 20 rooms.

Be well IAN 2411

[leo9]

Very touchy subject here in the UK...I believe there is a case going through the European courts about that very fact...conjured up by a woman stating ..yes, you guessed it. "Discrimination." The question is, why would a woman want to join a gentlemen only club, when most men would be repelled by the idea of joining a men only club themselves.

Because in this country, "gentlemen's clubs" have become a way for male politicians and businessMen to network out of reach of female colleagues who might be competitors for promotions or deals. In a culture where you can only get ahead by meeting the right people, making sure you can only meet them if you're the right sex is blatant discrimination.

Basically, follow the money.

[TrIcK]

Male discrimination in most cases is nothing compared to the discrimination towards women. The example you have given is actually very weak,
as there are plenty of places which are seen as acceptable to have a gender discrimination (notably in favour of men), and notice that the hotel
does not actually deny men custom, only restricts access to certain areas. Also just as additional titbit concerning the managers argument,
some of the night clubs in the city I live have unisex toilets because gender specific toilets are discriminatory to transsexual people.

[Punish_her]

Male discrimination in most cases is nothing compared to the discrimination towards women. The example you have given is actually very weak,
as there are plenty of places which are seen as acceptable to have a gender discrimination (notably in favour of men), and notice that the hotel
does not actually deny men custom, only restricts access to certain areas. Also just as additional titbit concerning the managers argument,
some of the night clubs in the city I live have unisex toilets because gender specific toilets are discriminatory to transsexual people.

consider any perceived male privilege I have a surcharge for being the last demographic to leave the titanic and a logical way to hedge a bet in case me and my penis get drafted.
Being a male isn't some sacred privelege, it's a responsibility and it always has been.women were confined to the house for most of history because they sure as hell won't be chasing down a deer for dinner or mining coal for 16 hours a day. those brutal, shitty, but necessary jobs require ample volumes of testosterone

[TrIcK]

consider any perceived male privilege I have a surcharge for being the last demographic to leave the titanic and a logical way to hedge a bet in case me and my penis get drafted.
Being a male isn't some sacred privelege, it's a responsibility and it always has been.women were confined to the house for most of history because they sure as hell won't be chasing down a deer for dinner or mining coal for 16 hours a day. those brutal, shitty, but necessary jobs require ample volumes of testosterone

Last time I checked both of those examples given are enforced by other men not women.

Your claim that its a responsibility to be a man isn't true in today's society, there is no reason for a man not to be the one staying at home, while a woman goes out to work and provides income for the household. Your idea that a man is always responsible for the families income is in itself a sexist belief, women should have equal rights and in turn equal responsibility.

when a woman walks home by herself at 2 am, that's not her negligence putting herself in danger at all.

While I'll agree that it may be dangerous for a women, it shouldn't be more dangerous for her than a man.

[Punish_her]

Last time I checked both of those examples given are enforced by other men not women.

Your claim that its a responsibility to be a man isn't true in today's society, there is no reason for a man not to be the one staying at home, while a woman goes out to work and provides income for the household. Your idea that a man is always responsible for the families income is in itself a sexist belief, women should have equal rights and in turn equal responsibility.

That can't happen because men and women are different. It's not a social construct that I am stronger than 99% of all women, it's biology because of differing hormone levels. Jobs that require enormous amounts of physical exertion will always be male dominated fields. It is not a social construct that says my girlfriend can't lift me upp if I were unconscious on the floor. Therefore, there are certain jobs that will always require much more male input than female input. These jobs happpen to be dangerous. Women won't be drafted because the average woman would not be as effective in combat as the average man.

[Thorne]

That can't happen because men and women are different. It's not a social construct that I am stronger than 99% of all women, it's biology because of differing hormone levels. Jobs that require enormous amounts of physical exertion will always be male dominated fields. It is not a social construct that says my girlfriend can't lift me upp if I were unconscious on the floor. Therefore, there are certain jobs that will always require much more male input than female input. These jobs happpen to be dangerous. Women won't be drafted because the average woman would not be as effective in combat as the average man.

This has got to be the greatest load of horse shit I've seen in quite a while. Just because you're stronger than most women (and maybe even most men for all I know) doesn't mean a woman can't do most of the jobs that you can do. And some jobs they will do better than you. You might have a steroid-enhanced physique that makes you look (and act) like the Hulk! But just try soldering a delicate component onto a circuit board in a field repair and see how well your strength helps. Need to haul a deuce-and-a-half up a hill? Great, grab a pile of muscle-bound jocks and have them haul their hearts out. OR you can grab a power-winch and let Twiggy do the job a lot faster.

As for women in combat, I suggest you rethink! Just look at the Israeli Army. They've had women in combat units for decades, and they can fight just as well and just as hard and just as long as any of the men. Sure, there may be situations where brute strength works best. And there are situations where being small, quick and quiet will work better. BOTH kinds of soldiers are needed, working as teams.

It's this kind of thinking, that women are less than men, that make women targets in society. They aren't looked upon as real people but as property, to be used at the whim of the man. If you treat women as equals, and really understand, deep down, that they are equals, you and they will be far better off. Give women the respect they deserve, the same kind of respect you think YOU deserve. They've earned it.

[thir]

Jobs that require enormous amounts of physical exertion will always be male dominated fields.

Are there any left?

It is not a social construct that says my girlfriend can't lift me upp if I were unconscious on the floor.

Nor could many men. That's why paremedics work in pairs.

[quote]
Therefore, there are certain jobs that will always require much more male input than female input.
[/quote

Input?? Lost you there.

These jobs happpen to be dangerous. Women won't be drafted because the average woman would not be as effective in combat as the average man.

Aren't there male marines? There are fem soldiers in many countries, DK and Israel for instance, and in Israel women are drafted.

[thir]

consider any perceived male privilege I have a surcharge for being the last demographic to leave the titanic and a logical way to hedge a bet in case me and my penis get drafted.
Being a male isn't some sacred privelege, it's a responsibility and it always has been.women were confined to the house for most of history because they sure as hell won't be chasing down a deer for dinner or mining coal for 16 hours a day. those brutal, shitty, but necessary jobs require ample volumes of testosterone

I do not understand why women should not get drafted as well, not reasonable, I agree.

'Confined' to the house is an illuminating expression, isn't it? I guess you would disagree, but IMO there are few jobs that either sex cannot do as well as the other, given personal talent in the specific job.

However, that is not the important thing as I see it. That being not 'confining' anyone to anything, but to letting them choose their path themselves, whatever that might be. No one have a right to confine anyone to anything.

[lucy]

@denuseri:
I don't want to have to carry a fucking gun to feel fucking safe, for fuck's sake!
Besides: I'm glad we don't have "stand your ground" laws here, because I firmly believe that the government should have and should always retain the monopoly on violence. Everything else opens doors to anarchy, and we all know who loses first in anarchy. Might be different in the US, but around here I like to keep it that way.
Then: It has to be said, but when it comes to domestic violence, women are not much better than men. In Switzerland, 40 % of victims of domestic violence are male. Taking into account that it's much harder for a man to go to the police and report that he's being violated by his partner than it is for a women it might well be that half of the offenders are female.

@punish_her: If men go at each other because they drink too much and don't know what to do with their testosterone or just because they are gangsters, that's their problem and isn't really discrimination, because, you know, men can't discriminate other men because of their sex.
If they go at me coz I'm a woman, that's my fucking problem and an altogether different matter.
Also: I didn't say there is no discrimination. I just said that it's fully understandable that women might enjoy having a floor to themselves in a hotel.

And puleeeze, just for once, leave me alone with US statistics. The world doesn't end at the coast of New Jersey and I'm certainly not going to look up any statistics of a country that's 4000 miles away, especially if the original topic of this thread isn't the US.
'kay?

[Punish_her]

@denuseri:
I don't want to have to carry a fucking gun to feel fucking safe, for fuck's sake!
Besides: I'm glad we don't have "stand your ground" laws here, because I firmly believe that the government should have and should always retain the monopoly on violence. Everything else opens doors to anarchy, and we all know who loses first in anarchy. Might be different in the US, but around here I like to keep it that way.
Then: It has to be said, but when it comes to domestic violence, women are not much better than men. In Switzerland, 40 % of victims of domestic violence are male. Taking into account that it's much harder for a man to go to the police and report that he's being violated by his partner than it is for a women it might well be that half of the offenders are female.

@punish_her: If men go at each other because they drink too much and don't know what to do with their testosterone or just because they are gangsters, that's their problem and isn't really discrimination, because, you know, men can't discriminate other men because of their sex.
If they go at me coz I'm a woman, that's my fucking problem and an altogether different matter.
Also: I didn't say there is no discrimination. I just said that it's fully understandable that women might enjoy having a floor to themselves in a hotel.

And puleeeze, just for once, leave me alone with US statistics. The world doesn't end at the coast of New Jersey and I'm certainly not going to look up any statistics of a country that's 4000 miles away, especially if the original topic of this thread isn't the US.
'kay?

BOOM point proven. when men get attacked it's because they were drunk, or they were too testosterone fueled or they must all be gang bangers, it's completely there fault. however, you should be allowed to do whatever you want and if you get attacked it's far worse than when I get attacked. [I] was at a bar last year, and I was attacked. Some guy thought I was trying to sleep with his girlfriend so he decided to take a pitcher and slam it into my face as hard as he could. Thankfully, it was plastic, so it just broke apart and left me with a huge bruise. If it had been glass, I'd be blind in one eye with a few dozen stitches. I suppose that's my fault right?
but no, when a woman walks home by herself at 2 am, that's not her negligence putting herself in danger at all.
that mindset is disgusting

[lucy]

I'm sorry you've been attacked. I got beaten down and mugged, too. At 9 pm on the campus. I don't call that discrimination, coz it could have happened to anyone. It's a question of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

but no, when a woman walks home by herself at 2 am, that's not her negligence putting herself in danger at all.

Yes. Unfortunately, apparently a woman can't walk home alone at two am. Because some testosterone-laden fuckwads make exactly that impossible. It shouldn't be negligence if she does and gets into troubles. That is exactly what I was talking about in my first post.

that mindset is disgusting

Yes, you are so right here: The mindset that a woman being assaulted/raped/whatever because she dared to walk home on her own at two am (something most men wouldn't think twice about) is negligent is indeed fucking disgusting. Very, very disgusting.

[thir]

@denuseri:
I don't want to have to carry a fucking gun to feel fucking safe, for fuck's sake!

I agree, I do not either. I would also like to be able to go where I want, when I want, in peace. The question is what to do when we can't??

A good start might be a zero tolerance to any violence, even if it be at night and people 'should have known better'. Maybe also, in spite of all the bad statistics, we should stop seeing women as victims. That would be my main reason for not liking the ide of the hotel floor for women.

Then: It has to be said, but when it comes to domestic violence, women are not much better than men. In Switzerland, 40 % of victims of domestic violence are male. Taking into account that it's much harder for a man to go to the police and report that he's being violated by his partner than it is for a women it might well be that half of the offenders are female.

This is a point that needs to be kept in mind, or we leave half of humanity between a rock (the agressors) and a hard place (hidden victims.)

And puleeeze, just for once, leave me alone with US statistics. The world doesn't end at the coast of New Jersey and I'm certainly not going to look up any statistics of a country that's 4000 miles away, especially if the original topic of this thread isn't the US.
'kay?

Actually, although it started with a Danish hotel, it got international in the second post, because looking more into it, I realized that so many other countries, European as well as in US and Canada, also have these women-only floors.

US is not the world, true, but I find it quite natural that we all give examples, including statistics, from our own home turf.

[lucy]

I agree, I do not either. I would also like to be able to go where I want, when I want, in peace. The question is what to do when we can't??

Do it anyway and reclaim the streets. Just like with slut walks. Maybe we should go out and walk this streets and let the idiots know that those streets aren't theirs.

A good start might be a zero tolerance to any violence, even if it be at night and people 'should have known better'.

I don't know whether that still happens in other countries. But I don't see that courts her can afford to "minimize" the guilt of a perpetrator with the "she's guilty too because she was wearing a short skirt"-approach (insert here any dumbass excuse for an asshole committing a crime). Any judge pulling such a shit would have been a judge for the longest time in a matter of minutes.
If anything, I think we're moving too much into the wrong direction, i.e. trying to establish full security by way of law. That will never be possible and if it is possible at all, it will cost us most or all of our freedom. I'd rather get beaten down and mugged than have that.

Maybe also, in spite of all the bad statistics, we should stop seeing women as victims. That would be my main reason for not liking the ide of the hotel floor for women.

Yep. That's a good reason. Unfortunately, it's often easier to achieve a political goal if you can claim "victim-status", one of the many reasons why being a victim has quite some appeal.

Actually, although it started with a Danish hotel, it got international in the second post, because looking more into it, I realized that so many other countries, European as well as in US and Canada, also have these women-only floors.
US is not the world, true, but I find it quite natural that we all give examples, including statistics, from our own home turf.

Right. I don't mind people citing statistics and giving examples from their home turf. I do it myself all the time. It's understandable, since our home turf is what we know best.
What pisses me off, though, is when some guy expect me to read up his home country's statistics. I might be married to an American, but that doesn't mean I've bookmarked the DOJ's homepage. Nor do I want to compare our crime stats with American's, because they're simply not comparable.

As for the example given in this thread; I fully agree with StrictMaster. It's a privately owned company. If they want to have a floor reserved to women, they should have the freedom to do that. If someone doesn't like it, I'm pretty sure there are lots of other hotels in Copenhagen to choose from.
There's a whole hotel reserved for women only in Zurich. That's totally ok and none of my business. What I don't like as much is that there surely would be an outcry by the same women who hail the idea of a women-only hotel if someone opened a men-only hotel. That's the point where feminists get annoying.

[thir]

Do it anyway and reclaim the streets. Just like with slut walks. Maybe we should go out and walk this streets and let the idiots know that those streets aren't theirs.

Depending on where you live - or how many you are walking together..

I don't know whether that still happens in other countries. But I don't see that courts her can afford to "minimize" the guilt of a perpetrator with the "she's guilty too because she was wearing a short skirt"-approach (insert here any dumbass excuse for an asshole committing a crime). Any judge pulling such a shit would have been a judge for the longest time in a matter of minutes.

I do not know if it happens so much nowaday in courts - ? It used to for sure. But I did not mean legally, I meant people's opinions often go in the direction of 'if you know it might be dangerous, why do it?'

If anything, I think we're moving too much into the wrong direction, i.e. trying to establish full security by way of law. That will never be possible and if it is possible at all, it will cost us most or all of our freedom. I'd rather get beaten down and mugged than have that.

I agree - we seem to think (in our part of the world) that one can ensure safety, and if safety isn't there, someone must be to blame! But though there are many things we can do, life can never be safe.

As for the example given in this thread; I fully agree with StrictMaster. It's a privately owned company. If they want to have a floor reserved to women, they should have the freedom to do that. If someone doesn't like it, I'm pretty sure there are lots of other hotels in Copenhagen to choose from.

In DK the board of equality are trying to take more power than they should have - in fact, they should be cancelled! But they cannot decide what the hotel should do. The courts have to decide if the hotel broke the laws against prejudice, and my guess is they would say no problem.

There's a whole hotel reserved for women only in Zurich. That's totally ok and none of my business. What I don't like as much is that there surely would be an outcry by the same women who hail the idea of a women-only hotel if someone opened a men-only hotel. That's the point where feminists get annoying.

Well, our feminists apparently felt the men were discriminated against here..

[Punish_her]

@punish_her: If men go at each other because they drink too much and don't know what to do with their testosterone or just because they are gangsters, that's their problem and isn't really discrimination, because, you know, men can't discriminate other men because of their sex.
If they go at me coz I'm a woman, that's my fucking problem and an altogether different matter.
Also: I didn't say there is no discrimination. I just said that it's fully understandable that women might enjoy having a floor to themselves in a hotel.

i'm not putting anything in your mouth that didn't come from it first. when men get atttacked, it's their own fault, when women get attacked, it's a great injustice. that's your view

[Punish_her]

seriously, that's like saying emmitt till deserved what he got for talking to a white woman. that's ludicrous that men somhow bring our misfortunes upon ourself.
nobody deserves to get attacked

[IAN 2411]

While I'll agree that it may be dangerous for a women, it shouldn't be more dangerous for her than a man.

I think that for any person whether male or female walking the street at "2 am" is would be dangerous. I live 18 miles from Brighton UK, and you would not catch me walking those streets after 6 pm. I don’t think for one minute that it is a woman thing, it is anyone that looks vulnerable, including macho men walking alone.

Stereotyping, individualism, discrimination and racism cuts both ways, and this floor in the hotel that caters for women only, is only fuelling the fires of the controversial politically correct idiots that walk our streets. It is most probably because of them women need that whole floor.

If it wasn't a man complaining it would be a woman shouting about being discriminated somewhere else about another petty point. He should be fined for being stupid and checked for signs of insanity and if certified sane, the judge should kick his ass out of court and tell him to get a life. This kind of crap is taking place on a daily basis all over the world, because we are in a society of the politically correct on a mission to give us the new world order. "And the question the majority ask, is this what we really want???"

Be well IAN 2411