When someone has second thoughts after the fact

[flying66]

Ok I need some help to see the other side of things here.

There's this girl who expressed a curiosity in trying some light ropework (hands and feet) so me and my play partner went to dinner with her at a restaurant of her choice to discuss things.

We invited her back to our place to try some of it out, she agreed.

When we got back to our place, she asked to see all our toys so, of course we pull out the toy chest and she gets to take a look at all our floggers, rope, canes etc.

long story short, we tried to make it abundantly clear that "we want to know what you are and are not comfortable with and let us know if there's anything you do not want to do"

so last night we had tied and untied her hands and feet, given her a back and front massage and pulled her pants down to her knees with a lot of heavy petting and cuddling. I recall asking lots of times if she was ok with us doing things (are you ok with taking off your shirt? are you ok with your pants coming down?)

She often remarked about how she "could just fall asleep like this" and was smiling and happy the whole night... when it came time to leave she said "next time let's do xyz"

When we drove her home, she asked for a hug from the both of us and when my partner put up a message on fb saying "I had a great night with girl A and girl B" she 'liked' the post and replied with " "

an hour later she posts "I'm shaking in fear" and the next morning she sends me several txt messages remarking about how we're both perverts, that she hates us, that she's bad at expressing herself, that we dug up bad memories of when she was assaulted, that we never asked her anything first, called us selfish...

I don't know what to do in this situation... we're never playing with her again, that's for certain. But what happened? I'm really at a loss...

[karley]

If she'd been assaulted before there are any number of things that could be going through her head. I'm tempted to say she's afraid of how she reacted, may now be having thoughts that she is "sick" (could be an after effect of the assault, making her think she deserved it etc for having the desires she does now). And having these thoughts could be leading her to "selective recall" regarding that night. She may be ignoring how much she enjoyed herself that evening because of the fear that enjoyment later gave her. The fact that it happened several hours later is probably due to the fact that she was coming down from her emotional high and started to rationalize what had happened.

Now I'm not saying any of this is true, but I'm fairly good at reading people/situations and this just seems to be what happened. There really isn't much you can do in this situation, because none of it was really you. She needed to know herself better and make the two of you more aware of the, even potential, fears she had.

Anyway, hope that helped a bit!

[denuseri]

I second what larley just told you.

Sounds like she didnt tell you enough about her past before playing with you and during the come down phase after play and had a trigger spark off which she apparently over reacted too.

[flying66]

thankyou for your thoughts! honestly I was hoping denu would provide some kind of input here... I've tried calling her, she won't answer my calls... just keeps sending angry messages. I want to make sure she recalls that we DID ask her consent loads of times last night then I hope to never have to deal with her again...

[VaAugusta]

I think you should try and move on from it. A situation like this can be a bit disturbing, and you can find yourself questioning: "Did we do the right thing?" But it's done now and you obviously have no intention of playing again. I wouldn't worry about it unless she has plans of pressing charges or something. I know you and he are both "out there", so it may be a little bit easier for you to handle, but it would still be quite the hassle. :Z From my interactions with flying66, you seem really nice and awesome so I think people will believe your end of the story if you are worried about your credibility at your local scene.

[Snark]

Did she receive any marks that would indicate that you went beyond what she originally expected? If not, I doubt that she could come up with any "evidence" that would support her going beyond an exhibition of regret. While I concur with the concepts already expressed, another one comes to mind. She may be either bipolar or borderline. Or both (a combination that is not common but does happen. I know this from personal experience.) This can help to explain the sudden reversal, especially when combined with latent guilt. Somewhat like "buyers remorse." She may have talked to someone with contrary views concerning such activity who has scared her over "those people" who do "those things." After all, there are crazies out there, therefore anyone who does things a bit beyond the "normal" are dangerous. Either way, she sounds less than stable. After all, no good deed goes unpunished.

[flying66]

@VaAugusta thankyou!

@Snark nope, like I said, nothing beyond 'heavy petting'

I've modeled with the girl before... the thing is that I think I should have seen this coming (I'm rather gullible, and slow on the uptake at times *sigh*) she's recommended photographers to me that she'll vehemently talk down on months later and has sent me random txts that say "I'm so traumatized!" with no follow up even when I txt back asking what has her so traumatized... it's like pulling teeth getting answers from her a lot of the time.

Anyways, conclusion thus far is that I've deleted her off my fb, talked to some ppl who do and don't also know her ... yes, Snark, a lot of them figured she was bipolar or something long before now (I kept her identity secret from ppl who don't know her... and only remarked on her reaction with ppl who do to keep it confidential)

She txted me varying death threats to which I responded by leaving a voice mail that politely said "I don't appreciate receiving death threats on my phone" ...

now her anger seems to have shifted from both of us equally to more mad at just my partner... something about how her back was to me so I didn't see her object to being touched. Regardless, I haven't blocked her on my phone or on fb... if she ever wants to talk to me again, she has a way to but I'm never going out of my way to contact her.

[thir]

Anyways, conclusion thus far is that I've deleted her off my fb, talked to some ppl who do and don't also know her ... yes, Snark, a lot of them figured she was bipolar or something long before now (I kept her identity secret from ppl who don't know her... and only remarked on her reaction with ppl who do to keep it confidential)

I believe you were right to do this.

She txted me varying death threats to which I responded by leaving a voice mail that politely said "I don't appreciate receiving death threats on my phone" ...

I agree that you should keep these voice mails against any further trouble. I think this is important, there is no saying what such a troubled person can get into her head to do.

now her anger seems to have shifted from both of us equally to more mad at just my partner...

I would guess that this is because she realizes that she cannot get anymore raise from you. Maybe you should suggest to your partner that he does the same thing. As long as either of you give her any answers, she'll keep coming at you for more.

something about how her back was to me so I didn't see her object to being touched. Regardless, I haven't blocked her on my phone or on fb... if she ever wants to talk to me again, she has a way to but I'm never going out of my way to contact her.

From where I sit, I'd say do block her out. It does sound like neither you nor your partner can help her, rather she will keep rambling as long as you try to help her, but without listening because that is not the point. It sounds like compulsary behaviour, which she may not be able to stop. It does not help her, and bothers you.

There are various kinds of emotional vampires, and she sounds like one. Only a pro can help her, but she likely will not seek any help, as long as she can get people to participate in her games.

[denuseri]

I pray that the matter will be left at that my sister and that the woman gets help for her issues.

[Master_Nova]

I understand your situation flying66. Adominant, then a Master in Gor so i have had both subs and slaves. I allways insist that the sub/slave be VERY sure of what she wants, that's why I am 'Leery" about taking asib orslave right now, I think we Both should get to know each other a Lot better before we 'scene'. One thing I think you should NOT have told anyone else about her, even If you THink it was inconfidence and someone You felt like you could trust. Other than that, it saounds like to me, you are quite Genuine and dik nothing wrong, but personally, i feel EVERYTHING said and done betwen me and a sub/slave is Higly confidential and ytou should tell NO one what went on between you and here. I wish you good luck in the future, but remeber, it is CONFIDENTIAL

[DeityorDevil]

While I concur with the concepts already expressed, another one comes to mind. She may be either bipolar or borderline.

Borderline was my thought too, actually, especially if the flip was over a very very short period of time.

I've modeled with the girl before... the thing is that I think I should have seen this coming (I'm rather gullible, and slow on the uptake at times *sigh*) she's recommended photographers to me that she'll vehemently talk down on months later and has sent me random txts that say "I'm so traumatized!" with no follow up even when I txt back asking what has her so traumatized... it's like pulling teeth getting answers from her a lot of the time.

Ding, ding, ding.

Don't beat yourself up for not noticing, sometimes you never know until someone reacts to something in a strange way. Live and learn.

Also... if you're getting death threats, after a consensual play session, it might not be a bad idea to save the texts in case you do need backup in a legal situation. Regardless, it doesn't sound like she's processing very well, and lots and lots of space on your end is the best you can do.

[DowntownAmber]

The likelihood of an emotional or personality disorder certainly seems high with this girl. I would guess that's the culprit behind her 180 degree turnaround, but with that already having been covered by numerous other posters, let me also throw out there that the folks in a newbie play partner's immediate circle are often as a big a factor as the new partner themselves.

How many of us have ever spoken about something pleasurable and exciting to us with another only to have our confidant look at us as if we had tipped off into the deep end? Someone fresh from the emotion of scening could very well enthusiastically share with another, only to have that other condemn the activity, BDSM as a whole, or the person themselves for even participating. The pleasure of vulnerability can warp to shame and anger pretty quickly at times, especially for those still finding their footing. A new sub or bottom can wonder if there is really something wrong with them for having reacted favorably to what a friend just put down, and now they're blaming the Dom/me or top or whatever.

I think that it's also a good idea to talk about that aspect of of scene - the perception and the delicacies of sharing with others.

[skittish doe]

The pleasure of vulnerability can warp to shame and anger pretty quickly at times, especially for those still finding their footing. A new sub or bottom can wonder if there is really something wrong with them (...)
I think that it's also a good idea to talk about that aspect of of scene - the perception and the delicacies of sharing with others.

You make such a good point here. I thank you for pointing this out.

[flying66]

I figure I'd update this here.

I saw her on the bus recently (let's call her H), I didn't go up and talk to her or anything, just sat down with my book and pretended not to see her and I think she scrambled to hide from me in the back... no worries sweetcakes, there's no WAY I'm going to voluntarily speak with you again!

Though I was talking with a photographer friend of mine to warn her about being VERY CLEAR about the outlines of her future shoots with H... and this photographer has actually shot with H recently and H mentioned us during their shoot and it wasn't anything bad. Apparently she said "did you know that flying and ___ are sexual" or something like that.

We live in a small city, most of the models, actors, photographers etc. know everyone else by at least reputation so people try to be very professional and don't like to talk down other models and photogs. I know for sure H has NO problems with gossiping and saying bad things about others so I figure if she has something to complain about, she'd complain about it.

Someone said that would happen... that bipolar and/or borderline people often say horrible things then come back a few weeks later and wonder why you're apprehensive.

@DowntownAmber and Master_Nova I try to keep things confidential, but when shit hits the fan like this I have to talk to someone about it (I'm a girl! I need to lol)... with my local community about this 'really REALLY bad experience I just had' she's not part of the local group (hadn't even heard of us before... my partner says he's never playing with ppl outside the group ever again) and warn friends who who may work with her in the future (though they didn't need me to say anything to know to tread carefully with this girl... I really should try to be discerning of ppl)

@Thir she hasn't said anything back to my partner since her original rants... since I stopped trying to get a hold of her she seems to have run out of steam. I just ignored her last few messages and she hasn't tried to contact me since.

[Snark]

Bipolars and Borderlines both create their own world. Sometimes it accurately reflects the real one. Theirs will mutate to suit their perspective, which changes over time. They may forget the details that they once found to be traumatic and later wonder why you no longer communicate with them. Until they reach a point of permanence (which they might never do) any relationship with them is based on quicksand. Since you live in a small community eventually more and more will realize the hazards of relating with them. Unfortunate. But that's the reality of BP's

[flying66]

Update here because there's an update... H is part of a burlesque troup popular with alt people here in my city. I didn't go to their recent show because I didn't want to but he did. He said that after her act, she came from backstage and sat down with him and hung out for the rest of the evening and she said she "Didn't want to dwell on the past"

This completely miffs me! She accused him of rape multiple times and sent death threats to both of us! She can really go and get fucking bent as far as I'm concerned.

[thir]

Update here because there's an update... H is part of a burlesque troup popular with alt people here in my city. I didn't go to their recent show because I didn't want to but he did. He said that after her act, she came from backstage and sat down with him and hung out for the rest of the evening and she said she "Didn't want to dwell on the past"

This completely miffs me! She accused him of rape multiple times and sent death threats to both of us! She can really go and get fucking bent as far as I'm concerned.

Be careful - she sounds dangerous to be around.

[Austerus]

Agree with thir. I wouldn't spend any more time around her, and would consider leaving a place she was hanging out and not interacting with her further. It may also be worth starting to gather documentation for the death threats and such. If you think she may continue then you should contact a (hopefully kink-friendly) lawyer and get some advice. Especially if she has a history of formal complaints and litigiousness you should document, establish a timeline, and get legal advice sooner rather than later.

[Silus]

Yeah this chick is mental....nothing worse than playing head games. And you have the chance to play them with not just one woman but two.