What makes you submissive?

[cadence]

I honestly don't believe there is a specific connection between being submissive and living a prior abusive past. Then again I am far too lazy to look up any relavant information that may substantiate my statement.

I would presume that we are born with submissive traits and maybe our environment helps to grow or hinder that side of ourselves.

I have never been physically nor emotionally abused. Well, if you talk to others, they would say that my parents were a bit too heavy with the discipline, but I have never been affected by that overall.

I had spoken to another submissive once about the similar behavioural traits we shared as young childeren. We both used to bang our heads against the wall or the floor when we were upset. However she is more into pain, I am into humiliation. The similarities stopped there.

I could say that I have had some kinky fantasies at a very young age, but I really didn't figure out my submissive side until much later in life. When I realized that I would rather put someone else's wants and needs before my own. That it makes me happier to please and be pleasing.

I sometimes dislike connecting anything sexual with my submissive side, only because I suffer from OCD, and when I was younger, I used masturbation as a way of coping with the triggers I had.

So anytime I am stressed or if I am triggered, I will use sex as a way to cope.
I find it more difficult to come to terms with sex and submission at the same time.

[TomOfSweden]

I honestly don't believe there is a specific connection between being submissive and living a prior abusive past. Then again I am far too lazy to look up any relavant information that may substantiate my statement.

I've read up on as much psychology research on this as I have been able to find. The problem is that it isn't a lot. Very little research has been done on the roots of masochism. On the other hand there's been a little more research on "how to cure this mental affliction of masochism". Which today is pretty dated in how we view sexual fetishes.

We do know that our brain is super effective at drawing conclusions based on flimsy evidence. It's built/evolved for speed in dangerous situations and not for correctness in pondering the big questions. We really can't draw the conclusion, "I am a masochist" and "I was abused" therefore "the abuse made me a masochist".

The mental back-flip here is that it assumes a healthy or natural starting point of our sexual desires which doesn't include masochism or kinks. Nobody has been able to find such a person. All our sexual needs are extremely complex.

Not to get too deep here, but the Western philosophical tradition we inherited from Plato starts with the assumption that we're faulty, (since we live in the land of the mortals) and that perfection/harmony/health can be attained if we rid ourselves of something holding us back or perhaps we're permanently broken by some damage earlier in our lives. In Plato's day mental perfection could be found among the Gods. This thinking still permeates our culture completely. Christians even think it's some kind of virtue to accept this original sin. Scientologists identify the negative energy as extra terrestrial parasites. New Ager's babble on about attaining harmony constantly without any deeper thought about what it means.

There is off course no such thing as the the mind in harmony. Or some kind of enlightened state of eternal bliss. Or even state of total mental health. Or let me rephrase that. No scientist has been able to find any brain that doesn't have some sort of easily identified pathology. We have a culture revolving around beating ourselves up for mental short-comings. Just stop. Don't try to find the act that was the root of it, because you'll most likely simplify it too much or just simply be wrong.

The word de jour is "biologism" or "biological determinism".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biologism
This is the trend right now, and more and more research is piling up to prove it right. If it swings back to behaviourism time will tell. But it's looking pretty bleak for their camp today.


What modern science are saying on this issue seems to indicate that, if you're born with a submissive brain in our culture you're more likely to get abused by those who identify your submissiveness and take advantage of it. In other words. Nothing and nobody makes you through their actions submissive.

The ability to enjoy being beaten is linked to how much endorphins your brain releases when pain is inflicted. Nothing complicated and very easy to understand. No magic. There's nothing you can do with your brain to change this. This is simply the brain you're born with. Yes, you're more likely to discover this "ability" early in life if you where beaten as a kid. And that's a good thing. But you can't acquire the liking of this purely physical feature by early abuse. That's just not how our brains work.

But the field of psychology has a very far way to go when it comes to research in this. They don't like to do research in a field where they won't discover something that needs years of therapy to cure. It's not in their professional interest. And all the limited research seems to indicate that masochism and submissiveness is not something we acquire as the result of something being broken.

[jeanne]

And all the limited research seems to indicate that masochism and submissiveness is not something we acquire as the result of something being broken.

If I were super-rich, I'd fund this research.

And I'm glad that there's at least something that says masochism/submissiveness isn't the result of being broken. Sometimes we just are who we are...

[Isabella King]

I would be incredibly offended if someone called me broken

[underdog]

I would be incredibly offended if someone called me broken

why is it that the oppression of the vanilla crowd end up influencing what has been a perfectly healthy way of life scince time began,i too will not be labelled for my sexual orientation and freely talk about it to all of my friends.
believe me. being a top or a bottom is barely scratching the surface of what lies beneath the finger pointers fantasies.

[gemmy]

What modern science are saying on this issue seems to indicate that, if you're born with a submissive brain in our culture you're more likely to get abused by those who identify your submissiveness and take advantage of it. In other words. Nothing and nobody makes you through their actions submissive.

well done Tom!

[icey]

thankyou mastersgem for being so honest...that was really big of you and very brave *hugs*

im with TomOfSweden to a degree and i know ive personally put myself in that position through being the more submissive personality on quite a few occasions,but thats as i became older,and arnt all young children submissive in some way or another to any adult or authority?

and the majority of child abuse often begins at a very young age i had a sexual r/ship from around the age of 5 to 13 with a trusted family member.

im not sure that it isnt related with my interests and preferences if im totally honest because when i look back the person who from the age of 5 onwards 'taught' me about sex and submission and 'taught' me to enjoy what i later learnt as an adult is called bdsm so ive often wondered if that isnt a large part of it,because without getting too personal if im honest in a strange way and i know its not 'normal' although extremely frightened i did sort of enjoy some aspects of it.

so i still dont know if i enjoyed it then because i was made that way or if i enjoyed it because i was taught to.

there does unfortunately though seem to be a very high number of submissives who were abused as children and you have to wonder just how much of a connection there may be.
and whlst its true to say that a person cant make you who/what you are its just as true that all your lifes experiences the good and the bad ultimately shape you into who and what you are.

im not saying very well what im meaning to say sorry its a difficult topic to express clearly or it is for me anyway lol