November Election

[mkemse]

Very Simple, Who do you want to Win In Novemember and Move Into The White House In January??
This Poll is based only on Obama vs. McCain since no VP's have even been mentioned for either

[Virulent]

d.) The people... I don't support politics in general, but specifically I can't imagine supporting either of the two candidates that the Capitalist Party is fielding this time around. As to who should move into the White House, I think it'd make a nice squat for some of the 10 to 20 thousand homeless in D.C.

[denuseri]

walks in the door with a dildo and some fruit juice, looks around,, humm whats up? oh a vote ?

well as an american however futile it may seem, i believe in voting, i dont allways like my choices, sometimes its just a matter of picking who you want to fuck you more than the other lol

now lets see, which of those two would i rather have tapping my ass

mabey i should make a pros and cons list

1) likely to be better hung============= obviously i dont really know but using ocums razor i cum up with obama

2) can really spank da ass=========== ocums razor again, the older the player the more he should know so its mccain

3)can go the longest =================== i have to say obama here but it is a close one if i factor in viagira for mccain,

4)will most likely call his buddies to help====== here i think mccain has the advantage its that whole military faternity thing

5)wont want to cuddle after===============just me here on this one its apet peev for me, hard choice to i allmost flipped a coin, but here i think its definetly leaning towards the older man, young guys are allways too lovey dovy, and i wouldnt respect him after if he was too clingy

well there we have it it was so allmost a tie,,

unless of course they change things and let the 2nd place guy be VP again (then i can get a little DP action going on),, oh wait Aronn Burr showed us why that doesnt work,

sips my juice and sits down with the dildo to watch the allmost certian fireworks

[denuseri]

this thread has so much potential too, i cant wait to see all the chads flying

[Kuskovian]

LOL. Looks like most will vote in secret. They seem to want to avoid this issue my pet.

I personally don't trust the current Democratic cantidate any more than I did his oposition for his party's nomination. Especially since Barrak Heussien Obama has played dirty and flipped on so many issues allready proving he isnt any big "change" at all. He wasted no time running to center after securing the #1 slot for the dems. We will see if he is dumb enough to thrust her as the primaries continue. Afterall lets not forget what has happened to others that have tried to investigate or oppose little miss high and mighty. The stupidist thing he could do if he values his life is make her his #2.

It still might be a Clinton running after all in the end. I wouldn't doubt if another Bobby Kennedy event happens before the fat lady sings.

I was for McCain before he won the primary and I am with him today. He at least has earned his chops.

[mkemse]

My biggest issue with McCain is he always says he want to creat more jobs in the United States, yet he was Intialy instrumental in getting the Air Force Tanker Refueling Contract to Northrop Grumman/ EuroBus sending hundreds of Thousand of United States Jobs over seas, I am glad to see the Pentagon re -review both Bids and maybe keep it in the USA and to Boeing, that would help creat great jobs here in the United States, where they are badly needed

[denuseri]

all I know about the tanker thing is the poor people that are living around the area where the company was going to build it have had thier hopes dashed for all those jobs now

[John56{vg}]

LOL. Looks like most will vote in secret. They seem to want to avoid this issue my pet.

I personally don't trust the current Democratic cantidate any more than I did his oposition for his party's nomination. Especially since Barrak Heussien Obama has played dirty and flipped on so many issues allready proving he isnt any big "change" at all. He wasted no time running to center after securing the #1 slot for the dems. We will see if he is dumb enough to thrust her as the primaries continue. Afterall lets not forget what has happened to others that have tried to investigate or oppose little miss high and mighty. The stupidist thing he could do if he values his life is make her his #2.

It still might be a Clinton running after all in the end. I wouldn't doubt if another Bobby Kennedy event happens before the fat lady sings.

I was for McCain before he won the primary and I am with him today. He at least has earned his chops.

Let's see. Interesting AND a lot disturbing. A call for an assassination. It was disgusting when Hillary bought it up and disgusting when it is brought up here.

Also following the party line. John McCain has flip-flopped like a fish out of water on every issue there is. He is first FOR the right of women to choose, then he is pro-life. He calls the Late Jerry Falwell a force for divisiveness then embraces him.

He is against Bush's policies and then for them. He opposes the new G.I. Bill and now is "proud" of how he has worked for it. If we want another 4 years of Bush, Vote McCain.

Barack Hussein Obama!, Too funny that the thought that someone's NAME can be brought up to scare so many people, classic political partisan drivel. And that is OLD news anyway. The "Obama is a MUslim" Lie failed to work MONTHS ago. It would be good to keep up with the current slurs.

[plato571]

Barry the Moslem has gotten a free ride from all the news media, we do not need another
George Bush in the WhiteHouse. But , since we had Bush shoved down our throat, Barry will be too! I for one am going to write-in Hillary Clinton, While everyone allows Barry to be shoved down thier throats. We get the government that we deserve!
plato571

[MissElizabeth87]

First of all, Barak Obama is NOT a Muslim, people!!! Hello!!! How much was in he in the news for what his CHRISTIAN pastor said??? I mean, I don't care if you don't like the guy, you are entitled to your opinions, but can we at least not resort to name calling?

Secondly, I'm voting for Obama. I grew up in Arizona, I saw what McCain did for my state-which was nothing, except lie through his teeth. I don't want that in a president. I don't like a man who will hide his opinions just to look better-like McCain has done when he so quickly became moderate right before announcing his first bid for the presidency 4 yrs ago. And lastly, McCain is well known for his temper, and verbally abuses his wife in public when he's "had a bad day" (this is something HE himself said in response to a book about his life-do not tell me I'm wrong, I watched him answer the question). See, I figure, as President, he's gonna have a lot of bad days. And verbal abuse often leads to more. I would prefer to not have a man prone to abuse in the white house.

Obama, on the other hand, is a huge family man, has only been in the senate for 7 years, but has done quite a bit for his own state. He seems to be incredibly moral and never once backed into the mud slinging politics are so famous for in the race for the democratic party nomination. I respect him immensely, which is a lot more than I can say for McCain. I don't care that McCain was in the military and a POW. Until McCain started putting his career ahead of his constituents, I had great respect for the man for that very reason. I do not, however, think that makes him more capable of running the country. Period. Why should we punish Obama for not being old enough to have served in Vietnam?

Oh.. and I think the best choice for his VP would be Condoliza (sp?) Rice. Our sexist, racist country would not dream of assasinating him if the follower was not only African-American, but a woman! (It's a joke!!) And John, I don't think the dude was calling for an assasination. Just saying that it could be likely, due to his race/supposed religion and the controversy over it.

[mkemse]

Some have said Obama does not have the experience to be President, well eithr did jFK when he was elected
Obama respresents the JFK of this generation
Also, and I do not know that I care much for Ret Gen Wesley Clark, but has he said about McCain"Being in the Srfgvice, being a POW ect does not by itself Quailfy him to be Presdient, we have had many POW's over the years and probably still do, many who wil never be accountedfor," But to say a person served their country, was a POW ect that qualifies him/her to be Presdient, to me it does not or we would have 100 thousand people runnig for President based just on those facts

I MEAN NO DISRESPECT for ANY former POW or Service person all I mean is by having been a POW and having served our Nation, these 2 reasons alone does not qualify them to be our leader

[denuseri]

if he gets assasinated it will probabaly be Hillary behind it is what i think my owner really means and as satirical as the sugestion is, its a very common one

also i think its funny how mentioning someones middle name becomes a slur all the sudden,,or somehow is an accuzation as to his religion

shouldnt obama be proud of his full name?
and even if he was a muslim ...shouldnt he be proud of that too?

btw my husband doesnt have anything against muslims he actually respects thier faith very much ,,no wonder that he married a bahai

for your information if you looked my owner didnt mention McCains militarary record which was far more than "just being a pow" as i recall he went on despite that to become admiral in charge of the pacific fleet and has a much longer and more ilustrious career in the senate than his oponent and obviously more experience especially in foriegn affairs all around which yes does come with age perhaps

i am all for getting someone else in the whitehouse

nieather one of us voted for bush eaither time btw

and just so we are clear: none of what we have said is a personal attck against anyone , though it looks like some may want it to be, we certianly wont be calling anyone names or saying that what they are saying is disgusting even though those tactics seem to be some peoples prefered methods

we would like to keep the focus on the cantidates and the issues

both of which i think you will see flip-flop like fish out of water on allmost everything as the election slowley approaches
both will move to the center and away from thier bases(though McCain was allready closer to center to begin with) close enough many in his party dont like him, yet somehow he did secure the nomination,,,

hummm, could it be that the majority of the republican party's members are not the radical far right neocon monsters that liberals love to fear monger about?

i also hope you realize (if yu bothered to read my first post) i am a suporter of obama myself too,which does not mean i dont see him for what he is.......another politician complete with ALL thier trappings

[mkemse]

if he gets assasinated it will probabaly be Hillary behind it is what i think my owner really means and as satirical as the sugestion is, its a very common one

also i think its funny how mentioning someones middle name becomes a slur all the sudden,,or somehow is an accuzation as to his religion

shouldnt obama be proud of his full name?
and even if he was a muslim ...shouldnt he be proud of that too?

btw my husband doesnt have anything against muslims he actually respects thier faith very much ,,no wonder that he married a bahai

for your information if you looked my owner didnt mention McCains militarary record which was far more than "just being a pow" as i recall he went on despite that to become admiral in charge of the pacific fleet and has a much longer and more ilustrious career in the senate than his oponent and obviously more experience especially in foriegn affairs all around which yes does come with age perhaps

i am all for getting someone else in the whitehouse

nieather one of us voted for bush eaither time btw

and just so we are clear: none of what we have said is a personal attck against anyone , though it looks like some may want it to be, we certianly wont be calling anyone names or saying that what they are saying is disgusting even though those tactics seem to be some peoples prefered methods

we would like to keep the focus on the cantidates and the issues

both of which i think you will see flip-flop like fish out of water on allmost everything as the election slowley approaches
both will move to the center and away from thier bases(though McCain was allready closer to center to begin with) close enough many in his party dont like him, yet somehow he did secure the nomination,,,

hummm, could it be that the majority of the republican party's members are not the radical far right neocon monsters that liberals love to fear monger about?

i also hope you realize (if yu bothered to read my first post) i am a suporter of obama myself too,which does not mean i dont see him for what he is.......another politician complete with ALL thier trappings

No the remarks i Made about McCain's beingi n the Military and a POW where what Gen Wesley Clark said about a week ago, what he said was that McCain having been a POW ect does not automticly quailify him to be President, i was just reierating what Clark said and Obam has distanced himself fromthose remarks
What I would like to see now simply is to have both Candidates discuss what they plan to do aboutthe economy, gas prices, medical coverage ect and NOT keep attacking ect toher, we also need to psay no attention to those outside the campaign that keep blasting McCain or Obama, wearen't voting for them
As far a whar Rev Wright said in the past in gneneral, as 1 Obama spoekpersaon said "Thisi s a free country, people can say as they wish, that does not mean Barack supports or believesi n what they say, even if that person supports Obamam

Wesimply need achange in Washington, no it may not be any better initalythen it is now, but it took 7 years to get hwere weare now itwill take more then 90 days to clean up the mess we have

[DungeonMaster6]

I really don't have anything personally against McCain. He can't possibly be worse than the jackass in the White House presently. Although, I do disagree with him on staying in Iraq and keeping these tax cuts for the wealthy. And yes he has flip-flopped on some things as well, like drilling for oil along the coast and the tax cuts.

Obama, however, seems more organized and I liked the way he dealt with Rev. Wright and the way he talked about more responsible fathers. I agree with him on Iraq. There should be a timetable to be completely out. Furthermore, the Iraqis don't want us there, so why stay. If I'm visiting someone and it looks I've worn out my welcome, I'm leaving.

As people have said, Barack reminds me so much of JFK, that it would be hard not to vote for him.

[mkemse]

I really don't have anything personally against McCain. He can't possibly be worse than the jackass in the White House presently. Although, I do disagree with him on staying in Iraq and keeping these tax cuts for the wealthy. And yes he has flip-flopped on some things as well, like drilling for oil along the coast and the tax cuts.

Obama, however, seems more organized and I liked the way he dealt with Rev. Wright and the way he talked about more responsible fathers. I agree with him on Iraq. There should be a timetable to be completely out. Furthermore, the Iraqis don't want us there, so why stay. If I'm visiting someone and it looks I've worn out my welcome, I'm leaving.

As people have said, Barack reminds me so much of JFK, that it would be hard not to vote for him.

DungeonMaster6,

Simple enough, If JohnMcCain wins the White House I believe it will be 4 more years of Bush and as you mentioned, President Mailki of Iraq said last week that he even wants a time table for us to leave Iraq as part of a security deal with his country and as I understand it, Bush said that would not even be considered, so here we have a country we are helping "rebuild" the Presdient of that Country has said he wants a time table for US Troops to leave, yet our President won't accept that
Wonder what would happen if I wore out my welcome at someones house but refused to leave... I can see the light flashing now as a car pulls into his drve way

[DungeonMaster6]

Although I disagree with McCain on Iraq, I don't believe he would've vetoed the "Stem-Cell Research" bill like Bush did. Besides attacking Iraq, that was the worst thing W has done. That bill could lead to finding cures for some serious deseases, but the jackass vetoed it because of some moral issue.

[Kuskovian]

Which is one of many reasons why I never voted for the little weasal to begin with DGM. LOL.

His father I respected in a strange sort of way. He was certianly well groomed for the position, more so than Reagan by far despite his popularity.

The Clintons; well what can I say about that administration? It truely brought the back doors coruption that we learned of with Nixion into the full lime light of the media. Right out in our faces on both sides. Funny thing is up until the whole thing with the cigar and cum stained dress; Newt and Slick Willy were about to broker an under the table deal for non-bi-patisan cooperation the likes of which even Regan or FDR never imagined.

I am not saying Obama is anymore a prick than any other politician now days, what I am saying is:

I believe McCain as more overall experience in the "leadership role".

I believe he will get more cooperation from both sides of congress as well as other nations.

I believe he will do what is "right" in the protection of our nation and it's principles.

I believe he is more than a pretty face with cheap talk, like his oponent seems to be turning out to be.

Moreover he as been there done that if you know what I mean.


The timetable for withdrall,, ahh a real sticky wicket, do we listen to the generals and stay, do we jump ship and cut our lossess, do we mismanage it and hand over full control to the locals too soon? All difficult questions if you really put thought into them. It is especially ironic considering we shouldn't have mabey been there under the pretexts that we were.

I would lay my bottom dollar that who ever wins the election will try to get us out eventually,( and niether will make it as soon as some want) but only in a way that lets them say it was a success.

[Virulent]

I am not saying Obama is anymore a prick than any other politician now days

Hehehe.

[MissElizabeth87]

If Barak Obama was actually a Muslim, I would say that he should be proud of his faith. However, it bothers me extensively that people are using a religion that he is NOT a part of, to say he supports terrorists and/or should not be president.

And while, yes, John McCain does have more leadership experience, as I stated, he hasn't done WELL in his leadership. More BAD experience does not mean he'd make a better leader.

And I'm sorry, my father is serving in this ridiculous war. And I really would rather him not have to go back 30 times because the president absolutely refuses to make any sort of timetable to get us out of a place we shouldn't be. Period. 100 years is way too much.

[John56{vg}]

And furthermore, The generals that have told the truth and said that had a different opinion than the President have all been fired. So any General that wants to stay in his position will say exactly what the President wants I fear.

MissE I commend your Father's service, the troops are the TURE heros of this debacle. They just do their jobs while being sent over there again and again and again.

I am sorry for your family's suffering thru this, yes, ridiculous war. The families are heroes as well.

[Virulent]

I'm pretty sure Kuskovian is correct, and the United States will leave Iraq no matter who is elected.

Q: What would or should we do if a sovereign Iraqi government asks us to leave, even if we are unhappy about the security situation there?

McCAIN: Well, if that scenario evolves, then I think it's obvious that we would have to leave. I don't see how we could stay when our whole emphasis and policy has been based on turning the Iraqi government over to the Iraqi people.

CFR quote

Nouri al-Maliki requested "a memorandum of understanding to put a timetable on their withdrawal" on 7/9. <link>

As everyone knows, Barack Obama has ran on a platform of a phased withdrawal, that he has reiterated as recently as 7/12, and probably won't back-down from that.

Once again, this is indicative of the normative, monolithic nature of American politics. Its just like Viet Nam; the Tet Offensive made the war unpopular, and the corporate elite decided to begin a phased withdrawal. This time around instead of the Tet Offensive, we have $4 gas. Americans can't possibly be made to give a fuck about anything but their rapidly devaluing currency right now, so anyone who made their way through the layers of ideological filtering to reach a position of political power will make the exact same politically expedient decision.

[MissElizabeth87]

Virulent, are you saying that anyone who believes we should be out of this war only believes that because of gas prices? Sorry if I misunderstood, that's just what your comment seemed to say.

I don't personally think leaving Iraq is going to fix gas prices anyways. Drilling in Alaska and on the continental shelf will though. :P

[claire]

It is my understanding that the combined oil in Alaska and off the continental shelf will only provide enough oil to supply the USA for two months. The trade off in the threat to the environment in these areas makes it an irresponsible move. The only people that will benefit from such a move are Bush and Cheney and the others who are invested in the oil industry. If they were to drill, the time line is so long it will have no effect what so ever on current gas prices.

[denuseri]

Malthis and his malthusians, (chk the spelling yursleves) if any are familuar

basically said as the worlds population gets to a signifigant size a last ditch scrammble will begin to sieze control of all remaining rescources, in effect a global war with massive famons etc

they predicted this proccess to occur a while ago based off the population growth rate in malthis's day,, he was wrong on the timetable becuase westernized countries that allowed more freedom to wemon resulted in lower birthrates as more wemon chose to have careers etc, somthing allmost unthinkable to him in his day and age

the process however seems to be ocuring just not on schedule

as a side bar to the thread i am just curious what all think about thier canidates abilities or knowledge levels to step up on these things as they are some things i consider when choosing a cantidate

our own cicil liberties not with standing,,, what does everyone think we will have to do to survive and do they think thier cantidate will be able to prepare us for this eventuality and why?

is thier a way that will work (considering we cant just snap our fingers and everyone be peaceful) that wont involve war?

[Virulent]

Virulent, are you saying that anyone who believes we should be out of this war only believes that because of gas prices?

I can totally see how you could read it like that, but I was just sort of using gas prices as a metaphor for a bad economy. No, I think an overwhelming majority of Americans, of all political inclinations, no longer want to stay in Iraq because they're beginning to feel, viscerally if not intellectually, what its like to spend 12 billion dollars per month over there. That's 4.95% of the total U.S. federal income. In contrast, the Department of Education gets 1.9%, the Department of Health & Human Services gets 2.4%, and the Department of the Interior, which is responsible for tending to our wild spaces in ANWR and other places gets 0.4%

Note this is not for military spending, per se. This is just off-budget appropriations for Iraq & Afghanistan. Military spending is an additional 16.6%. Put another way, for every $100 you paid in taxes last year $21.55 was used to blow shit up. So, for someone making the minimum taxable income, $7,825 per year, they contributed $168.62 (21.55% of 10% of their income) to buy bombs and shit.

If you make $8k per year, and you realize that you're spending $168 on bombs and guns, I wonder why you're not out in the street, with some guns and bombs of your own. That's fucking theft, and from people so institutionally under-educated they can't understand that someone else is spending their bread money... and on what? 25 million individual Americans got aid at non-governmental food banks last year. 8% of the population can't feed themselves adequately. Nothing makes me angrier than taxation.

If Americans feel poorer lately, it might have something to do with the tremendous amount of wealth being expended in Mesopotamia. I think most Americans are starting to come to that conclusion, and I really think political affiliation becomes irrelevant at that point. Its important to remember though that long-term health care costs for the wounded troops will also cost between 240 and 500 billion, depending on whose numbers you use.

That's all I meant.

An old man told me, instead of spending billions on the war,
we can use some of that money, in the ghetto.
I know some so poor, when it rains that when they shower,
scream and fight the power.

[Virulent]

as a side bar to the thread i am just curious what all think about thier canidates abilities or knowledge levels to step up on these things as they are some things i consider when choosing a cantidate

I'm not sure how much it matters. But, I think that John McCain is more pragmatic than Barack Obama; if you imagine that the President sits there and decides what he wants the country to do, and then has the country go do it... then I think I'd pick John McCain. To be real though - I'm pretty sure that "president" is what we call our national speech-giver/hand-shaker. I don't think there is any autonomous authority in the job.

what does everyone think we will have to do to survive?

A good book for people interested in this would be Endgame (free mostly complete version <here>), by Derrick Jensen. I'm quite fond of it, but as a word of caution, it explicitly is written to preach to the choir - if you're not already certain that human civilization is doomed to eco-Malthusian collapse, it probably won't interest you. The book doesn't spend one line trying to convince you of this impending catastrophe. Either you see it coming, or you don't.

I think that is exactly the right way to handle it too - if when you look around you, you don't see civilization in its death throes, I do not believe I could possibly convince you to see what it looks like to me... and honestly, I hope every day that I'm wrong.

[MissElizabeth87]

For the record, I thought we should never have been in the Middle East... But then again, I'm a pacifist to begin with. I just don't think war is the best way to solve things. It's just the first way human beings tend to do it apparently.

I was half-joking about drilling in Alaska and such. I do think we should try to be obtaining oil from places OTHER than the Middle East however-it is possible, and I doubt sincerely gas prices are ever going to go down. However-gas prices everywhere else in the world are as bad or worse than they are here. Honestly, I think they should be trying to find better ways for transportation. Not hybrids-though they're a start- but like... hydrogen cars, extensive good public transportation. Cars are not a necessity.

Either way, I think honestly, McCain is going to be elected. Clinton voters will split the democrat vote and McCain will win. That's my prediction. Not how I want it, but it's how I think it's going to be.

[John56{vg}]

MissE,

I am trying to have faith that that will not happen. But I have a fear you may be right about McCain. Which will mean our economy will continue to tank and the war will continue I fear. I DO NOT have faith that the Republicans will listen to the Iraqis. They will find some reason to have a continued presence. Too many companies like Blackwater and KBR are making a killing in the war zone I fear. It is funny, I try to be optimistic, but it is getting almost impossible to stay that way.

I agree, (I did feel you were kidding about the offshore drilling etc :-) ). If we stick with using fossil fuels, we will need more gasoline refining, not more oil. And refining is already at capacity so that oil companies can make their tidy profits off the backs of Americans.

[Stealth694]

Neither Obama and McCain are what you can call pick of the litter.
Considering the financial, political and international mess Bush will be leaving behind
anyone with sense would wonder "Do I want the Job???"
But whoever gets the job had better hit the ground January 21 2009 at a dead run because I doubt if the media will give him the traditional 100 day grace period to get his administration in order. More like 100 hours, and with the financial mess with the banks questionable loan policies he had better have someone picked for head of the treasury.

[Thorne]

Virulent, are you saying that anyone who believes we should be out of this war only believes that because of gas prices? Sorry if I misunderstood, that's just what your comment seemed to say.

I don't personally think leaving Iraq is going to fix gas prices anyways. Drilling in Alaska and on the continental shelf will though. :P

That won't do it, either. The best way to fix the gas prices is to restrict the futures traders who are artificially raising the prices in order to generate unearned profits for themselves. Then do the same for food. Let the free market determine the prices, not the stock market.