Reconciling Conflicting Ideals

[AdrianaAurora]

I do not think it is a stretch to say that most subs are treated as if they are hierarchically less than their doms. Anyone who disagrees; please explain to me why its acceptable and even perhaps normative for a dom to flog a sub, but not the other way around. MacKinnon, of course, then mentions that obviously prisoners are incapable of meaningful consent. Let me summarize for clarity: if a sub fits MacKinnon's definition of a prisoner, then MacKinnon thinks that sub is getting raped regularly.

I have never been treated as "less" either by my Master or any other dom I have met. If anything intellectually I have been valued equally or even superiorly, and if we are talking "play" I have been treated "differently", that doesn't mean worse. I get pleasure from submitting, he gets pleasure dominating, isn't that equal exchange? I fulfill the need in him, just as he fulfills the one in me. I think its important to grasp that while we are all born with equal rights, we are not all born the same.

I asked him once why don't I get to spank him? He said, with a half-smile smirk on his face, that I am welcome to try. Lol. That was the extent of that exchange because I simply don't have that intangible quality in me to dominate others by sheer force of my personality. Or at least I have less of it than Him; we are all selectively submissive.

The whole universe, the very essence of life, is based on yin and yang. Every relationship is a power exchange. Granted not everyone is into "pain" aspect or bdsm related fetish, but every marriage or romantic coupling is D/s, its give and take, and its never that unattainable modern myth of absolute 50:50 equality all the time. I can take the spanking, but I couldn't take "the silent treatment", to me thats unbearable cruelty. And what is silent treatment if not (gutless, imo) D/s power tripin'?

And the analogy prisoner-sub just doesn't stand, prisoner is there against his will, sub choses to be there, she asks to be in that position and is free to leave at any time. For me, being forbidden to express this part of myself would equal prison.

[Virulent]

if we are talking "play" I have been treated "differently", that doesn't mean worse.

Are there any hierarchies in play? If I (consensually) spit in a sub's face, do you consider her to be an equal partner in the spitting?

I get pleasure from submitting, he gets pleasure dominating, isn't that equal exchange?

In your opinion, is there a rational limit to the equitable exchange in play, or is any consensual act between two individuals non-hierarchical? If there is a limit, where do you draw the line, and by what rationale?

[AdrianaAurora]

Are there any hierarchies in play? If I (consensually) spit in a sub's face, do you consider her to be an equal partner in the spitting?

In your opinion, is there a rational limit to the equitable exchange in play, or is any consensual act between two individuals non-hierarchical? If there is a limit, where do you draw the line, and by what rationale?

Strictly speaking in the context of a consensual BDSM and my own personal preference view of such relationship...

Are there any hierarchies in play? Its a bit of a moot point. Yes, I submit, I respond to his dominant chemistry and behavior, I obey and do things I find difficult and wouldn't do otherwise, things where he pushes me out of my comfort zone. But make no mistake if he did something to cross an absolutely untouchable limit (for myself) I would have no problem taking control and top/ over domme him. Its not that I cant dominate or take control, I can and can do it well, but I am not dominant, it does nothing for me. I get no satisfaction from it. Our dichotomy seems to be, you see it as a vertical, while to me D/s is a horizontal power exchange.

He says it better:

This is about love and partnership. Your commitment to me is based on the surrender of self. But you are to be only submissive, not subservient. I am not a god to be worshiped and you should not appear to be a lamb being led to the slaughter. Personally submissive but equal in all else. One role doesn’t over shadows the other. You are mine. Mine alone. There is no life for either without the other.