Great topic to bring up Redhead. I'll pick through and comment from my own perspective. Apologies in advance if I get long winded!

Quote Originally Posted by Flaming_Redhead View Post
I have nothing against erotic humiliation. In fact, it's one of my major turn-ons. I'll happily answer to just about anything my lover chooses to call me. What I do have a problem with in this lifestyle is the almost constant verbal degradation of those perceived to be at the extreme end of the spectrum in regards to submission. We call them all manner of things, including unsophisticated, timid, needy, and weak, but most often, we refer to them as doormats.

Society lauds the accomplishments of the strong, independent, self-sufficient go-getters while condemning those who are self-effacing and meek. Feminists have done much to alleviate the notion that women are somehow inferior to men in intellect and ability as was common conjecture until the mid 1900s. However, somewhere along the way, those who didn't live up to the Wonder Woman image of modern times became scapegoats and targets of derision.

Just observe how many submissive women feel it necessary to state that they aren't weak and don't need a dominant male to make their lives complete. Obviously, there is still a stigma attached to being submissive, even amongst those in the lifestyle.
I am one of those women that is perfectly comfortable on my own, taking care of myself and being dominant in the majority of my interactions. "Wonder Woman" would be a huge stretch, lol, but it would be pretty unlikely that I would be described as submissive by very many people outside of immediate lifestyle contacts. That's me, who I am at my core. I play to my strengths.

When I see someone who is submissive an all aspects of their life, I don't immediately label them a doormat and I am not offended by them in any way. In fact, I have deep respect for those that are submissive in all aspects and strive to be the best sub they can be. To me, that is a person playing to their strengths, and being the best they can be at what they want to do and feel compelled to do.

When I refer to someone as a "doormat," I am referring to someone that does not strive to embrace their submission, but defers to it becuase they just don't feel worthy to be anything else. To me, that is an insult to submission and many submissives. Submission is a level of service and personality, not the default reaction to low self-esteem.


Quote Originally Posted by Flaming_Redhead View Post
Further evidence of this can be seen in the number of dominant males who feel it necessary to proclaim that they only seek those who have something besides themselves to bring to the table. Apparently, the gift of submission isn't held in as high esteem as lifestylers would have one believe.
I'm not sure I would say that. My submission to J was special to him because it was something very few people would or could ever get from me. It was exclusive. It made him feel special to recieve something unique. It made me feel the same way to give it.

Quote Originally Posted by Flaming_Redhead View Post
It seems to me, from my observations, that these dominant males seeking strong females don't want to be needed. They want her to take care of herself as well as him. She can be a CEO in the real world, but she's to be nothing more than a fetch-and-carry when she gets home. WTF?!?
Again, I think it's a matter of exclusivity - the desire to be needed by someone who doesn't need simply for the sake of it - they (the Dominant)are wanted for something very special that only they can seem to provide for the submissive.

I need a bit of clarification here as well... When you say "she's to be nothing more than a fetch-and-carry when she gets home," I sense a little of the same predjudice that this post seems to be appealing against. I myself don't care for the phrase "nothing more than."


Quote Originally Posted by Flaming_Redhead View Post
On the other hand, there are plenty of submissive females who love to reiterate again and again that they submit by choice and not by need. Since when did need become a dirty word? You can talk about taking a break from reality when you get home all you want, but it still leaves the question as to what to do about those for which this isn't a game to be played in the bedroom but a real life need to be dominated and controlled in order to be a happy and functioning member of society.
I don't know if "need" is a dirty word, but "choice" is indeed a beautiful one. If it weren't an issue of choice and simply one of need, I guess the specifics of our partners wouldn't be an issue. We could all just line up as Doms and subs and pair off.

For example, I need to eat. But I choose what I like, I choose to take time to prepare it and serve it, or I choose not to care. If I just answered the need I could eat dirt and get by.

I also don't think that submission is a game to those who are dominant in their day to day. Because you are not submissive to everyone does not make you less submissive to your particular Dom.


Quote Originally Posted by Flaming_Redhead View Post
Why, especially here, should people who are deeply submissive be made to feel that they are subhuman and something to be avoided at all costs. Why aren't they, instead, praised and emulated? Why are those who are willing to do anything to please their master regarded as unhealthy and undesirable?

Tom of Sweden loves his wife/slave whom he considers a doormat. There's another married M/s couple on another BDSM site whose posts detail the fact that she is loved and cherished above all else, even though she's the type that unless you take her by the hand and lead her out will stand in the subway all day letting others go first. With all the soul-searching I've done over the last 2 years or so, I've come to realize, or maybe knew all along but was afraid to admit even to myself, that I would be happiest if I could just be myself, a stereotypical weak woman, enslaved by and dependent upon her master, instead of trying to convince myself and everyone else that I'm exactly the opposite.

The question burning in my mind is this. With so few masters actually willing to be entirely responsible for another human being, where does that leave the truely submissive? Where can they (we?) find a safe haven and acceptance, if not here in the lifestyle? With everyone encouraging others to just be themselves, why does it always feel like they're (we're?) not included?
I certainly hope that because I am who I am, I don't act like I am better than anyone else. I will admit though, I do worry about the safety of subs that sub to anyone and anything, and I worry about the Masters that seek out a sub that will be collared without any type of criteria for the one that collars her. Those are the "doormats" to me and it's scary how easily they can be damaged and taken advantage of.

Everyone, I think, should have enough respect for themselves and their role to be the best sub or Dom or whatever they can be. If you're subbing because you think you have no value and that's what you deserve, I simply see a problem.