Quote Originally Posted by icey View Post
i can agree with this and have been in many similar situations myself and all has gone well, but there can also be other unknown problems, what if another sub in those exact same circumstances had stated this was a hard limit but had very painful and personal reasons as to why? its all very well to say communicate well which i agree with totally but sometimes there are things that can take a long time to communicate fully.
for eg, for a long time i had a hard limit of any form of strangulation IH was aware of that but not why, when we first met i filled in the c/list we'd talked/played much etc that i told him why, when i was younger id been strangled, he knew id been assaulted etc but didnt know the full details and i hadnt wanted to tell him when i barely knew him, eventually in my own time (which is very important for anyone) i did, now had he pushed as you did i would probably have really freaked out on him something terrible and the outcome would have been very very different and possibly even dangerous.

sometimes there are maybe things that a sub needs to approach the Dom/me with? any hard limits i had i gradually approached IH with ..soft limits he would 'push' but even then very carefully..now maybe that sounds like i was topping from the bottom but i think that's very often the safest way to call it.
even soft limits can cause dilemmas, i mean there are things that to begin with especially for anyone inexperienced we may feel are soft limits UNTIL it comes to it we are pushed then we suddenly find that they're not so soft after all, after all if you've never tried it than how can you be sure? it's better in my book to play carefully.

and despite any discussions and agreements i still believe that regardless of anything, nothing should be pushed if the sub is spaced out..there has been occasions and im sure im not the only one when play has had to stop for me immediately because ive been so 'far gone' that although my body has responded i hadnt actually had a clue of what was being done to it and because of the things we'd been doing i dread to think of the outcome if IH hadnt recognised that.
im not saying for 1 minute thats what happened with SirRussels girl...but what if it was?
Absolutely right icey. I wouldn't take it upon myself to push "because I'm the Dom and I know best..." It has to be born of understanding all your partner's motivations. And of course, if you feel something is being held back, then you talk more.

Now, just as an example, under the right circumstances, if you hadn't shared the crucial information with me... might it all come spilling out if I put my hands to your neck and (without squeezing in the slightest) just talked to you? Not violating the limit per se... but definitely playing around the edges of the limit.

BTW, I would not call it 'topping from the bottom' because such conversations are usually held outside of the scene. We all profess communication, and if we put a perjorative label on discussing limits, we put inpediments to making that communication useful.