i have read every post in this thread and my eyes are burning! The attacks and criticisms of the books was to be expected, inevitable. i offer only one comment and find it hard to believe that after ten years it is the same comment offered then...
if you read the books with your eyes alone, you will find a story, a world, not unlike a horror flick at times; a tale of erotic fantasy and terror; a tale for Men's dreams. if you read the books with your mind and emotions, you will find the meaning of freedom; you will find the silken thread that can destroy the walls you've built up; you will find a tale for women's dreams.

When you spoke of the spiritual aspect of being kajira, you hit the nail on the head. It is not for those that want playtime, although there is plenty of that as well. A kajira's life is not one for her own pleasures although her pleasures are fulfilled. A kajira's life is from the heart, it is always, there are no "hours of the day" specified for her to be submissive, to be "kajira", it is always there. While actions may take outward form a few hours of the evening, she does not stop being kajira for the rest of the time. Whether she is owned or wandering alone, she is always kajira, though most would not know her at first glance.

Someone asked if there was a difference between being submissive and being kajira. In the books it is said "Once a kajira, always a kajira". i have heard this phrase bantied about online for years and very seldom have i heard it used in full meaning. Kajirae are submissive. If playing semantics ...no there is no difference.

When i was trained as kajira, i was warned that i would "change". i didn't know, didn't appreciate what that meant until many years later. i had changed, completely. It didn't hit me until i was out of the relationship with my Gorean Master for several years. i still walked with the awareness of a kajira; i still spoke to Men with the awareness of a kajira; i still looked in the mirror with the awareness of a kajira; i still cooked with that awareness; stood with it. i had changed and after 5 years now of being out from under Discipline; i am still kajira. The changes are subtle; they are psychological; they are soft, but they are still there. After living a nilla life for the past several years, they are still there, burning softly but burning none the less.

Is there a difference between kajira and submissives? i can't answer that. Each submissive answers the question herself. i've known submissives not knowing of Gor philosophies, to be very much like kajira, where their submission was truly at the heart of them.

Thank you for this thread and pointing me to it from the other one. i needed the reminder.