The Church orders Wives to Submit to their Husbands

[thir]

Out of curiosity, if you were filling out some form of paperwork which asked you to list you religion, what would you put down? I only ask because of my own experiences. It took me a long time before I felt comfortable writing "none" instead of "Catholic". And I could certainly understand if you were reluctant to put down "Pagan".

Why would putting down "pagan" be a problem?

[Thorne]

Why would putting down "pagan" be a problem?

It wouldn't be a problem for me, but if, for example, you were applying for a job it might present a problem. Even though employers are not supposed to discriminate based on religious convictions, some still do. In South Carolina, some employers are devout Baptists and would be unlikely to offer a job to someone who identified themselves as a pagan, or an atheist, or Jewish, or Muslim. Or even Catholic! I once had a woman refuse to even rent me a room because I told her I was not religious. If I'd said I was a Pagan, or Satanist, I'm quite sure she would have called the police.

[thir]

Why would putting down "pagan" be a problem?

It wouldn't be a problem for me, but if, for example, you were applying for a job it might present a problem. Even though employers are not supposed to discriminate based on religious convictions, some still do. In South Carolina, some employers are devout Baptists and would be unlikely to offer a job to someone who identified themselves as a pagan, or an atheist, or Jewish, or Muslim. Or even Catholic! I once had a woman refuse to even rent me a room because I told her I was not religious. If I'd said I was a Pagan, or Satanist, I'm quite sure she would have called the police.

I do not quite understand. Why would a working place be interested in your religion in the first place? Unles there were special circumstances.
If there is freedom of religion, why even ask???

[Thorne]

I do not quite understand. Why would a working place be interested in your religion in the first place? Unles there were special circumstances.
If there is freedom of religion, why even ask???

Legally they shouldn't ask. Many get around this by putting the question on applications, but saying you don't have to answer. The same applies to questions of race. You don't have to answer. But there's a possibility that you might not get considered for the job without answering. And I had one case where, after filling out an application without any questions of religion, the interviewer made it one of the first questions he asked. When I questioned his reason for asking he admitted that he wouldn't hire non-Baptists! When I said that was illegal, his only response was, "They have to prove it, first." Interview over!

[leo9]

When I questioned his reason for asking he admitted that he wouldn't hire non-Baptists! When I said that was illegal, his only response was, "They have to prove it, first." Interview over!

Next time, wear a wire.

[Thorne]

Next time, wear a wire.

To every job interview? How was I to know that this kind of thing would come up? Besides, the guy was a "pillar of the community", involved in politics and a "good Christian businessman." Think I would have had much of a chance?

[MMI]

You can love someone and not want to "submit" to them. If forced to, or placed within circumstances that create the necessity for someone to be under another's authority or control would then be subjection. If he is asking them to submit, then it would be submission, should they choose to do so - but if they were not naturally submissive to begin with it is highly unlikely that the marriage will be a happy one while the wife is "trying" to be submissive.

Submission (even if it is willingly attempted at the request of another) can turn into subjection if one of the parties involved ends up unhappy with the arrangement.

If Oden wanted wives to be subjugated, wouldn't his sermon been along the lines of, Men, oppress your women?

Legally they shouldn't ask. Many get around this by putting the question on applications, but saying you don't have to answer. The same applies to questions of race. You don't have to answer. But there's a possibility that you might not get considered for the job without answering. And I had one case where, after filling out an application without any questions of religion, the interviewer made it one of the first questions he asked. When I questioned his reason for asking he admitted that he wouldn't hire non-Baptists! When I said that was illegal, his only response was, "They have to prove it, first." Interview over!

Possibly, so that, in case of need, a clergyman of the appropriate denomination can be summoned.

[Thorne]

Possibly, so that, in case of need, a clergyman of the appropriate denomination can be summoned.

That wouldn't be needed until after I was hired, if at all. The answer to his question was a contingency of being hired.

[thir]

Legally they shouldn't ask. Many get around this by putting the question on applications, but saying you don't have to answer. The same applies to questions of race. You don't have to answer. But there's a possibility that you might not get considered for the job without answering. And I had one case where, after filling out an application without any questions of religion, the interviewer made it one of the first questions he asked. When I questioned his reason for asking he admitted that he wouldn't hire non-Baptists! When I said that was illegal, his only response was, "They have to prove it, first." Interview over!

I am still somewhat confused by all this, as I cannot see why what you do in your free time or who you pray to (if anybody) makes you a better or worse dentist or carpenter. (The 'you' being generic of course).

Perhaps because, as I mentioned on the other thread, I do come from a rather non-religious back-ground. Makes my head spin!

[Thorne]

I am still somewhat confused by all this, as I cannot see why what you do in your free time or who you pray to (if anybody) makes you a better or worse dentist or carpenter. (The 'you' being generic of course).

It has to do with the attitude that, if you aren't one of us you're a "rabid foaming at the mouth" heretic. After all, if you're not a member of the same religion you just might take it into your depraved mind to rob them blind.

To be honest, I don't understand the attitude, either. But I've seen it all too many times. In religion, politics, schools, pretty much anywhere people join together.