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[denuseri]

Definition of the word belief:

1. something believed; an opinion or conviction:

Such as a belief that the earth is flat or that the moon is made of cheese, or that god does not exisit.

or

2. confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof.

or

3. confidence; faith; trust: such as a child's belief in his parents.

or

4. a religious tenet or tenets; religious creed or faith.

So this is why I say that when one says they are an athiest they are saying that they believe that god/ or gods etc do not exist.

Believing in a lack of something is still a belief all the same.

The Atheist imho is no different than any child clinging to santa claus as real, or any other holder of a belief.

Science, philosophy, religion and personal opinion all have in common that people believe or do not believe (ie have faith in or not) the source of the statements of the individuals involved in the practice of the respected activities etc.

Historically one grows from the other, in that they are all fruit of the same tree.

[Thorne]

Definition of the word belief:

1. something believed; an opinion or conviction:

Such as a belief that the earth is flat or that the moon is made of cheese, or that god does not exisit.

So, does saying that the world is round constitute the same kind of belief as saying that it's flat? I don't think so. We have evidence, proof, that the world is round. Believing that it is flat flies in the face of that evidence.

or

2. confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof.

Exactly right. This is the epitome (in my opinion) of belief.

or

3. confidence; faith; trust: such as a child's belief in his parents.

I'm not as confident of this definition, at least not in a rigorous, scientific sense. Trust is something earned, through repeated exposure. You don't display confidence, faith or trust in someone you don't know, not without some evidence that they are trustworthy.

or

4. a religious tenet or tenets; religious creed or faith.

To my mind, this should be lumped in with #2. I agree with this one.

So this is why I say that when one says they are an athiest they are saying that they believe that god/ or gods etc do not exist.

And I deny that this is what atheists are saying. They are saying that the existence of gods is "not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof."

Believing in a lack of something is still a belief all the same.

But NOT believing in something is not the same as believing in a lack of something.

The Atheist imho is no different than any child clinging to santa claus as real, or any other holder of a belief.

An idea we are doomed to differ on, I'm afraid.

Science, philosophy, religion and personal opinion all have in common that people believe or do not believe (ie have faith in or not) the source of the statements of the individuals involved in the practice of the respected activities etc.

Except that science has evidence and that rigorous proof which separates it from religion and personal opinion. Philosophy I'm ambivalent on. I can't quite categorize it. I get the feeling that philosophy somehow straddles the line between science and religion. I try to avoid discussions of philosophy.

Historically one grows from the other, in that they are all fruit of the same tree.

Again, something we must agree to disagree on. Religion grows from the tree of faith and personal opinion. Science is the fruit of that tree of Knowledge which some religions blame for the downfall of man. They are ultimately poisonous to one another. Science requires evidence and proof, something which religions are unable to provide. If science can tell us where we came from, and where we are going, what need have we for religion? Religions require faith and obedience, which eliminates the need for science. If we can answer any question of science with the phrase, "God did it," what need is there for exploration and experimentation?