U.s. Founding fathers

[DuncanONeil]

I disagree. It's only that those without a moral compass make the headlines more often. Most people are willing, and able, to maintain a moral center regarding their fellow human beings, even without religion.

Really no way for us to settle this!


Only such wisdom which was collected before about 100AD (give or take), at least as regards the Bible. A few extra years for other books. But you have to realize, too, that much of that "collected wisdom" was taken from relatively small areas of the world, not from a collective humanity. It's more the collected stories of an individual culture, and a culture that is historically obsolete.

Again more or less. But stories were carried from area to area over the trade routes. Everyone has a creation myth, and nearly everyone has a story of a catastrophic flood.

[Thorne]

But stories were carried from area to area over the trade routes. Everyone has a creation myth, and nearly everyone has a story of a catastrophic flood.

And all of those stories, while having some points in common, have far more differences than similarities. That's how you can tell that they have been "tainted" with the myths of other cultures. The stories of the Bible, for instance, were borrowed (to be polite) from the Babylonians, Egyptians and even the Far Eastern cultures. They were modified to fit the cultures of the Hebrew tribes. And then those cultures spread their myths and stories far and wide, too.

[DuncanONeil]

But that is the problem with a myth. That little kernel of truth!

And all of those stories, while having some points in common, have far more differences than similarities. That's how you can tell that they have been "tainted" with the myths of other cultures. The stories of the Bible, for instance, were borrowed (to be polite) from the Babylonians, Egyptians and even the Far Eastern cultures. They were modified to fit the cultures of the Hebrew tribes. And then those cultures spread their myths and stories far and wide, too.

[Thorne]

But that is the problem with a myth. That little kernel of truth!

You make an assumption that all myths do indeed have such a kernel of truth. I would say, instead, that they all have a kernel of perceived truth. What is perceived as truth today, may be proven as untrue tomorrow. It was a perceived truth that the Earth was the center of the universe. We now know that to be wrong. Should we, then, give equal weight to those myths which rely upon that one-time truth?

[DuncanONeil]

But you do agree with the kernel theory.

You make an assumption that all myths do indeed have such a kernel of truth. I would say, instead, that they all have a kernel of perceived truth. What is perceived as truth today, may be proven as untrue tomorrow. It was a perceived truth that the Earth was the center of the universe. We now know that to be wrong. Should we, then, give equal weight to those myths which rely upon that one-time truth?

[Thorne]

But you do agree with the kernel theory.

I will agree that they probably had some elements within them which were not completely fabricated. Like any good fiction, blending some reality into the story enhances it, making it easier to accept it as possibly real. Whether or not the primary point of the story is real depends on the particular story.

The catastrophic flood stories, for example. Most early civilizations were centered upon large rivers or natural harbors, areas which would tend to see major flooding periodically, and truly catastrophic flooding rarely. For commoners who rarely, if ever, strayed more than a day's journey from home, seeing everything they've ever known covered in a flood would certainly engender tales of the wrath of the gods destroying the whole world. In effect, the world they knew was destroyed. Not a hard concept to understand. Taking those stories and twisting them into some sort of morality story creates the myth. An angry god: what was he angry about? (People sinned, or they didn't pray hard enough, or they didn't sacrifice enough virgins.) The world destroyed: why would he do that? (To punish everyone, guilty and innocent alike, men, women, children, even animals, except for one righteous family.) Control: how do we make sure he doesn't do that again? (Don't sin, pray harder, sacrifice more virgins. And don't forget to pay the priests.)

So a tiny incident (globally speaking) is blown up into a major myth. Floods happen. Global floods don't.