Suprmem Court Ruling

[StrictMasterD]

Am curious to eveyones Opnion on Yesterdays (March 2. 2011) rulingby the Suprmem Court allowing that Churh to not only Picket a funerals of Soldiers but also allowing them to shout their Obsenities at the Families of the Deceaded Soldiers
Keepingi n Mnid YES we have Freedom of Speak but also these Soldieers put their liveso n the line for us
Do youtthink that maybe the Suprmem Court in issuing it ruling should have limited thier Protrsts to sgins and Banner without ashout their Obsenities at the Familes
A;sp dp ypu agree with the Ruling that the Church CAN NOT br sued bythese Family for the Emotional Disress the family members suffer as a result of thier owrds during their protests

[Stealth694]

I do not agree with what this "CHURCH" is doing. Freedom of Speech is one of our greatest things, but to do this to a grieving family, is definetly the pitts.
They had better hope they do not run into a family that believes in expressing their Freedom of Speech with a clinched fist.

[StrictMasterD]

I do not agree with what this "CHURCH" is doing. Freedom of Speech is one of our greatest things, but to do this to a grieving family, is definetly the pitts.
They had better hope they do not run into a family that believes in expressing their Freedom of Speech with a clinched fist.

I agree, what the Church is doing Freedom Of Speach or not under these circumstances is beyond descpicable

[thir]

Am curious to eveyones Opnion on Yesterdays (March 2. 2011) rulingby the Suprmem Court allowing that Churh to not only Picket a funerals of Soldiers but also allowing them to shout their Obsenities at the Families of the Deceaded Soldiers
Keepingi n Mnid YES we have Freedom of Speak but also these Soldieers put their liveso n the line for us
Do youtthink that maybe the Suprmem Court in issuing it ruling should have limited thier Protrsts to sgins and Banner without ashout their Obsenities at the Familes
A;sp dp ypu agree with the Ruling that the Church CAN NOT br sued bythese Family for the Emotional Disress the family members suffer as a result of thier owrds during their protests

In October, Margie Phelps, daughter of church patriarch John Phelps, argued before the justices that Snyder's funeral was a public media event at which protesters had shown up to debate "the sins of America and the wages of war" with those attending the ceremony.

(Could not get the pc to link, but above found on Inquirer.net)

I think it is obscene
How can a funeral be a public media event??

[Thorne]

How can a funeral be a public media event??

If the media were there to cover the funeral, then it is a media event. Not sure WHY they would be there. Were they there to cover the funeral or the WBC assholes?

Either way, I think it is obscene as well, but I do have to agree that they have the right to speak their minds about it. I'm not so sure about the lawsuit part, as that would be, AFAIK, a civil action and probably not a constitutional issue.

[Ozme52]

Ah... but it got to the Supreme Court as the result of a suit I believe.

Regardless, I support the Supreme Court's decision. The first amendment must be protected. And claiming mental or emotional injury (as in "the amendment doesn't let you yell FIRE in a crowded theater just because you wanted to see the reaction,) would be very difficult.

What is clear to me though... is that a good watchdog group should henceforth keep an eye on this church and its membership.

ANY instance of illness, death, financial collapse, etc., by ANY member, should also be a "call to arms", so to speak, maybe a nice flashmob, to congregate around the church and the member's home so we can all hold up banners and scream at them that obviously God hates them for being sodomites and practicing gay sex... I mean, that's the basis of their logic.

[_ID_]

Being in the military I agree with the Court ruling.

I have signed on the line to give my life for the freedoms we enjoy. That means freedom of speech. It doesn't matter if I don't like what you have to say, or how you want to say it. I am dedicated to defending your right to say it. Even if it means you spit in my face as I do so.

The reason I am so dedicated about that, I don't want some asshole telling me I can't post to kinky forms because they disagree with my voicing my opinions about kink related subjects. I don't want some shit bag telling me that I can't stand in front of the white house with anti-war protest signs. I don't want some fucktard telling me who to support when I post political signs in my yard during election season, simply because the person they approve of is the most politically correct.

Do I agree with what this 'church' is doing in regards to the military funerals? No. However, if asked by my country to stand guard and protect them from harm while they protested a military funeral, I would do just that.

[StrictMasterD]

Most Cemetraries are "Public Domain" the only exception is if the Cemetray is "Private Property"
The olny other optionis, if the Church DOES show up tp spew their haterd and "Accidently" damages, and Lwns, Gareden etc on the Cemetart Property can they then be sued for Vandalism or Damage to Proprty
In a way it it like the OJ TRail in Vegas, I believe the ONLY reason the went after oj in Vegas was for pasyback for geting off on the double murder he committed
I would like to see the "Biker Brigade" "Conviently shpw up y one of these funerals were the church shows to to prtest anduse "Thier OWN VERSION" of Frredom of EXPRESSION
Also how would the church feel if protesters show up at a Funeral for one of thier own? Does their view suddenly to change "Hey this is a private event??

[thir]

If the media were there to cover the funeral, then it is a media event.

I do not get that. Does that mean that the media can go anywhere they please?

Either way, I think it is obscene as well, but I do have to agree that they have the right to speak their minds about it.

I am trying to get my head around this. They have a right to speak their minds, yes, but anywhere? And anyhow?

A funeral is a private occasion, not a public one. And disturbing a funeral is blasfemy.

Does this mean that freedom of speech means you can go into the church as well, for instance? And disrupt the service with shouts and banners an so on?

Can you then go into for example a hospital and start shouting at gay patients?

Can you storm a club? Can you lay siege to a private home?
Turn up at the diner where people eat their lunch, or at their job?

Does 'freedom of speech' mean freedom to pester and persecute other people any way they like?????

Isn't this way of doing it making a disturbance or a public nuisance or whatever?
Isn't it, frankly, an attack?

[StrictMasterD]

I do not get that. Does that mean that the media can go anywhere they please?



I am trying to get my head around this. They have a right to speak their minds, yes, but anywhere? And anyhow?

A funeral is a private occasion, not a public one. And disturbing a funeral is blasfemy.

Does this mean that freedom of speech means you can go into the church as well, for instance? And disrupt the service with shouts and banners an so on?

Can you then go into for example a hospital and start shouting at gay patients?

Can you storm a club? Can you lay siege to a private home?
Turn up at the diner where people eat their lunch, or at their job?

Does 'freedom of speech' mean freedom to pester and persecute other people any way they like?????

Isn't this way of doing it making a disturbance or a public nuisance or whatever?
Isn't it, frankly, an attack?

Apparently According to the Suprmem Court, YES, the have therighto seak their mind any tmie any place except in a Theatre shouting Fire
Apparenty YES< the Suprmem Court Ruled that the have the right, to assemble, Pester etc and be a public nuicence
Yes a Funeral is a PRIVATE ppear the issues seems to e thatalhout the Funeral is a Private Affair, the Cemetaryitself is Pub;oc Domain, I did some checking and even at a Privately Own Cemetry theywould stiull have theright o shout their shit
So to simply answer your question, the Suprmem Court ruling APPARENTLY ALLOWS THEM and other to do ALL you mentionmed, does not mean it is right but apprently it is the Law by Court Ruling

[StrictMasterD]

Whether we agree or do not agree therealityi s the Suprme Court has ruled and appartently that is all that matters, Feeling,Emotions ect do not matter just the ruling

[thir]

Whether we agree or do not agree therealityi s the Suprme Court has ruled and appartently that is all that matters, Feeling,Emotions ect do not matter just the ruling

Sigh. Seems more freedom of spit than freedom of speech.

[StrictMasterD]

Sigh. Seems more freedom of spit than freedom of speech.

I agree but their Descion is Final Unless Congress does someting, which is unlikely if sfor not other reason they have done virutaly noting on other issues

[Thorne]

I agree but their Descion is Final Unless Congress does someting, which is unlikely if sfor not other reason they have done virutaly noting on other issues

Hell, the way things have been going lately, Congress would be more likely to pass a law making it illegal to disagree with those assholes. Might even make it mandatory to join them.

[thir]

Hell, the way things have been going lately, Congress would be more likely to pass a law making it illegal to disagree with those assholes. Might even make it mandatory to join them.

What about freedom of opinion? Isn't that in there as well?

[StrictMasterD]

What about freedom of opinion? Isn't that in there as well?

Wouldn't put it pass them or even be suprsied if they did

[StrictMasterD]

Hell, the way things have been going lately, Congress would be more likely to pass a law making it illegal to disagree with those assholes. Might even make it mandatory to join them.

would not be suprised if they did, maybe theyare workingon it now

[katydidnt1]

As prior service military I totally agree with _id_. I fought for the freedoms of the masses. Even if they are fucking retards without an ounce of moral fortitude.

[StrictMasterD]

As prior service military I totally agree with _id_. I fought for the freedoms of the masses. Even if they are fucking retards without an ounce of moral fortitude.

Ok and what happens then if a church members dies and counter groups picket those Funerals and the Church screaming holly hell what do you think your doing, do you not have any moral decency for those who have died?
They Protest because they do not as a Church believe in Gays, Lesbians etc and the Soldier dying in their eyes is Gods way of punishing American or our "Moral Decey" They do not believe in Gays serving Open;ly in our Military
They are all God Fearing Christian, I guarantee if one of their church members die, even the founder and counter groups show up to protestand pick at THEIR FUNERALS they will raise all kinds of hell over it saying "Thisis a Private Event"

[DeityorDevil]

I have complex feelings about this church, and the protests in particular. I absolutely believe in free speech. I also believe in exercising my right to free speech, frequently, as good taste and political correctness aren't my forte. I also believe in respecting anyone who chooses to stand up for their country and for their beliefs. The members of the church are obviously standing up for what they believe. They're doing it in a tactless and offensive way, and about offensive and stupid bullshit, but that is pretty much what they're doing.

If the cemetery is on private property, then the patrons/owner do have the right to ask that the protesters leave, and the right to call the police if they don't. Of course, they could cross the street and protest from public grounds.

My general stance, is I have no problem with another person's beliefs until they become a problem for me. Homophobia doesn't bother me personally, unless someone decides to make it a problem for me. I'm gay, some people are super uncomfortable with it, and that's fine. I work with blue-collar guys who were really "concerned" about me being gay at first. By now they realize I'm just a mouthy asshole like they are, I just don't care about the texts of naked chicks they pass around. I believe in the basic principle of "be nice or leave me alone."

I don't think I would want to protest another person's funeral. Obviously this group has decided that their beliefs make room for that kind of activity, but protesting the mourning of another life isn't in line with my beliefs. It would just be- being an asshole for no reason other than I disagreed with their actions. That's not really a value that I hold, it's just a character defect I'm working on.

So, yeah. I think protesting another person's funeral is bullshit. I think it's fucked up and sick behavior, perpetrated by sick, deluded people. Of course, if Americans protested all fucked up and sick behavior, that puts us in very murky moral territory, because who makes the call?

[StrictMasterD]

I have complex feelings about this church, and the protests in particular. I absolutely believe in free speech. I also believe in exercising my right to free speech, frequently, as good taste and political correctness aren't my forte. I also believe in respecting anyone who chooses to stand up for their country and for their beliefs. The members of the church are obviously standing up for what they believe. They're doing it in a tactless and offensive way, and about offensive and stupid bullshit, but that is pretty much what they're doing.

If the cemetery is on private property, then the patrons/owner do have the right to ask that the protesters leave, and the right to call the police if they don't. Of course, they could cross the street and protest from public grounds.

My general stance, is I have no problem with another person's beliefs until they become a problem for me. Homophobia doesn't bother me personally, unless someone decides to make it a problem for me. I'm gay, some people are super uncomfortable with it, and that's fine. I work with blue-collar guys who were really "concerned" about me being gay at first. By now they realize I'm just a mouthy asshole like they are, I just don't care about the texts of naked chicks they pass around. I believe in the basic principle of "be nice or leave me alone."

I don't think I would want to protest another person's funeral. Obviously this group has decided that their beliefs make room for that kind of activity, but protesting the mourning of another life isn't in line with my beliefs. It would just be- being an asshole for no reason other than I disagreed with their actions. That's not really a value that I hold, it's just a character defect I'm working on.

So, yeah. I think protesting another person's funeral is bullshit. I think it's fucked up and sick behavior, perpetrated by sick, deluded people. Of course, if Americans protested all fucked up and sick behavior, that puts us in very murky moral territory, because who makes the call?

The only thing is NO Cemetary is Private Property that is part of the issue, ALL Cemetaries are open to any one to walk through
Thereis not one Cemetary in the UnitedSttes that you can not freely walk through

[DeityorDevil]

I still agree that it's fucked up, offensive, and tasteless. But freedom of speech does protect even speech I don't like. I'm not going to defend their actions or their beliefs, because I definitely think those people are psychos. Principles of the constitution end up superseding specific beliefs in this case. (Even stupid ones.)

[denuseri]

There have even been protest groups who show up to protest the protesters in many cases; not just the one's at the funerals and sometimes as with other groups like the KKK or the Neo-natzis thats the only way to express one's ire at their excersicing their right to assembly.

I am basically in principle with the Court on this one in so far as up holding the 1st amendment even though I too believe that their manner and timing for protest is in poor taste to say the least and that the court should have used this as an opportunity to re-define where is appropriate.

I am sure that the founding fathers knew that the freedom of speech was in some ways a double edged sword and altough they perhaps didnt forsee the formation of some groups ; I am sure that they would agree that for our nation to work everyone should get to freely express their views on any topic in allmost any setting that one saw fit within reason.

The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution is part of the Bill of Rights. The amendment prohibits the making of any law "respecting an establishment of religion", impeding the free exercise of religion, infringing on the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances.

Originally, the First Amendment applied only to laws enacted by the Congress. However, starting with Gitlow v. New York, 268 U.S. 652 (1925), the Supreme Court has held that the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment applies the First Amendment to each state, including any local government.

[Thorne]

The only thing is NO Cemetary is Private Property that is part of the issue, ALL Cemetaries are open to any one to walk through
Thereis not one Cemetary in the UnitedSttes that you can not freely walk through

Are you sure of this? I would think that any cemetery, unless run by the city/state/federal government, would be considered the same as any other business. They can choose who is permitted entry. Just like any business can refuse service to anyone, the owners of a cemetery are able to refuse entry to anyone. Especially if they are making a nuisance of themselves.

It's my understanding that the members of this church are required to obtain a parade permit in order to mount their protests on public property. I would think that one way to keep them from disrupting funerals would be to require (for everyone, of course) one or two weeks notice before issuing such a permit. Since most funerals will not have such advance notice, the deceased will already be buried before they can legally set up their protest. And as long as everyone is given the same treatment, there can be no complaints of discrimination.

Any legal experts out there know if something like this would be possible? Would it be possible, even, to require longer waiting periods for people who don't live in a certain town, or county, or whatever boundaries you want? And what about charging fees for these permits? I'm pretty sure they already do that, but could they have larger fees for people or organizations that do not pay taxes in that community?

[StrictMasterD]

Are you sure of this? I would think that any cemetery, unless run by the city/state/federal government, would be considered the same as any other business. They can choose who is permitted entry. Just like any business can refuse service to anyone, the owners of a cemetery are able to refuse entry to anyone. Especially if they are making a nuisance of themselves.

It's my understanding that the members of this church are required to obtain a parade permit in order to mount their protests on public property. I would think that one way to keep them from disrupting funerals would be to require (for everyone, of course) one or two weeks notice before issuing such a permit. Since most funerals will not have such advance notice, the deceased will already be buried before they can legally set up their protest. And as long as everyone is given the same treatment, there can be no complaints of discrimination.

Any legal experts out there know if something like this would be possible? Would it be possible, even, to require longer waiting periods for people who don't live in a certain town, or county, or whatever boundaries you want? And what about charging fees for these permits? I'm pretty sure they already do that, but could they have larger fees for people or organizations that do not pay taxes in that community?

I spoke with a Layer mentionedi t and he said all Cemetaries are Public Property, that City, Towns ect can require Permists to demostatre if they want to,
I would love to see the Biker Brigage start show up to mafe this Church Facists
The Cemetary may be Private in Terms o fwho can be buried there, ie: Catholic Cemetary, or a Jewish etc one, or a Hindu one, but ANYONE has legal right to walk the grounds of any cemetray I have donei t before just to see the grounds

[StrictMasterD]

Let;s just let the Biker Brigade start to show up where the Church does andsee what happens, they may not be as "Dipomatic" as others
A City cna Require a Demostration permit, but it is a City, Town State issue but i like your idea of sure you can Demonstre and spew your hatrered, you justn eed a Permit and you have 2 wait 2 weeks, oh by thr way the permit is $500 what woulds the church do then, porbably sue

[StrictMasterD]

I might add, in the late 70's maybe early 80'as the KKK wanted to march through Skokie Illinoid, the town refused to issue a permist basedon the grounds that major confrontations the own was forced by the courts to issue a marching permit

[13'sbadkitty]

Most Cemetraries are "Public Domain" the only exception is if the Cemetray is "Private Property"
The olny other optionis, if the Church DOES show up tp spew their haterd and "Accidently" damages, and Lwns, Gareden etc on the Cemetart Property can they then be sued for Vandalism or Damage to Proprty
In a way it it like the OJ TRail in Vegas, I believe the ONLY reason the went after oj in Vegas was for pasyback for geting off on the double murder he committed
I would like to see the "Biker Brigade" "Conviently shpw up y one of these funerals were the church shows to to prtest anduse "Thier OWN VERSION" of Frredom of
EXPRESSION
Also how would the church feel if protesters show up at a Funeral for one of thier own? Does their view suddenly to change "Hey this is a private event??

i am a member of the "Biker Brigade" that stands in between protesters and the families as well as providing escort on the road. While I am not on the same page with regard to the politics of many of the people I ride with on these "missions" , in my area atleast we stand with respect for the family and soldier rather than to stoop to the lowest common denominator. In Suffolk County NY I was present when legislation was signed into law preventing protest at funerals. I don't know how this will effect that but it was nice to see politics show up for soldiers even if it was to win votes.

[StrictMasterD]

i am a member of the "Biker Brigade" that stands in between protesters and the families as well as providing escort on the road. While I am not on the same page with regard to the politics of many of the people I ride with on these "missions" , in my area atleast we stand with respect for the family and soldier rather than to stoop to the lowest common denominator. In Suffolk County NY I was present when legislation was signed into law preventing protest at funerals. I don't know how this will effect that but it was nice to see politics show up for soldiers even if it was to win votes.

I appreciate what you do, not sure the Legislation will mean anyting now that the Supreme Court has issued its ruling, it may be a mute issue now, I agree for you, I appreciate what you do and well as our People fighijhting over seas for us to insure our Freedoms, it is people like thosefrom the church that irk I have all the respect and admiration one can have for what you Foks do in honoring our sssslaim Soldiers please keep up the good work

[wicker]

there is no words to express the feeling of disgust I feel when someone intrudes on another grief, no matter whom, a mother, a father a brother a sister, wife or lover has the right to bury to their loved one, without interference, without interruption and without prejudice, from whomever. No matter what the circumstances!
that has to be an unalienable right. that has to over ride any "Freedom of Speech" no matter what country or creed you adhere to. The right of privacy is something that is so often forgotten, and we in this community, should be so much more aware of that than anyone. I do not care for many funeral rights, but I do care for your right to carry them out. Freedom of Speech be damned, let the Freedom to be Human, be the overriding right there. nuff said.