The Human Rights of Child Killers.

[IAN 2411]

Rapist pleads guilty to teenager's sex murder, Monday, 8 March 2010

Convicted sex offender Peter Chapman was jailed for life today after admitting the kidnap, rape and murder of a teenager he ensnared on a social networking site.
Judge Fox passed a life sentence on Chapman and said he would serve at least 35 years imprisonment before being considered for parole.
"For it appears to me that you are, you were at the time, and have been for some considerable time, a very great danger to young women and, for what it is worth, I cannot foresee your release," he said.
"In my judgment, your killing was of such seriousness on its own, and in conjunction with other associated offences, that it falls clearly into the category of being particularly high."
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Good call by the Judge, but the surprising thing is the previous of the man, for the life of me I just cannot understand how the police let this filth get away with his crimes for so long.
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Chapman, a convicted rapist, has a long history of sexual offending.
At 15 he was accused of sexual assault and four years later he was accused of raping a girl he had befriended. Both these allegations were discontinued.
But in December 1996, aged 19, he was jailed for seven years at Teesside Crown Court after being convicted of raping of two teenage prostitutes.
After his release, he was arrested by Cheshire Police in 2002 for the rape and kidnap of a prostitute in Ellesmere Port. Again the case was discontinued.
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Now this guy was a murder waiting to happen. I am not sure how the mind of a kidnapper and rapist goes, but I have always been led to believe if this particular crime is committed then the victim usually ends up dead. This person is the disgusting filth I have been talking about, and they do not have the rights to claim human rights, as they lost that right when they became a predator. You could go as far as to say if a person kidnaps, rapes and the victim ends up dead it is premeditated.

Here in the UK this guy will end up in a soft jail getting three meals a day, television, a games room, a library, and gymnasium. He/she will more than likely get a visitor once a month that sympathises with his hardship, and probably a liberal social worker telling him the law was a bit harsh. The real kick in the teeth is that all this will be paid for by the child/victims - parent’s/loved ones taxes. Well that is just not good enough because for me that is not paying for his crime, because everyone that he touched by taking away their loved ones is paying for it including his good health.

Sounds to me like something has happened to turn you around. I hope it was nothing personal, to you or yours. There are plenty of bad things happening in this world, and I wouldn't wish them on anyone.

Not me personally but someone that is a very good friend of mine, and it brought home just how close we all are from the next pointless murder about to happen.

The work camps which you describe, however, seem more like concentration camps or gulags than prisons. A far more effective punishment would be keeping them in confinement, with little to do but think about why they are there.

I would not go as far as to say concentration camp but Gulag fits the crime, harsh yes but so too is murder. The trouble with locking them away as you said is the mental health act in the UK, and after a few months it would be played on by his/her lawyers. Then where would they go? Oh yes a nice secure mental asylum gardening outside, with another bunch of psycho’s saying he is fit once more for mixing with the public after a couple of years.

It's my opinion that convicted criminals should have almost all of their rights rescinded, except for certain basic rights. Adequate food of course, to maintain their physical health, as well as BASIC healthcare when required.

With you all the way.

Mental health care, in appropriate institutions, for those so in need.

Sorry that’s a no, no, read above because in the UK it is a good get out clause.

Other PRIVILEGES may be earned, perhaps, through good behavior,

No privileges as that comes under human rights, his/her victim had their privileges taken away the moment they died, the main one being the privilege of life.

And I still maintain that some people, the very worst, most incorrigible criminals, should be subject to the possibility of the death sentence. Not as a deterrent to others, as I don't think that kind of person would be deterred by another person's suffering. But simply to insure that, no matter what happens, no matter which political party is in power, that person will never, ever be released into society again. And death is the only sure guarantee.

While a certain part of a criminal's punishment is intended to help ease the pain and fear of the victims, the primary purpose of the justice system is, in my opinion, to protect society from such criminals. In some cases prison will do that. Few will want to risk returning to prison after being released. But some people are so defective, so evil, they should not, EVER, be allowed to interact with others again. Killing them may not make their victims feel any better, but knowing that they will never threaten anyone ever again makes ME feel better.

Yes, I will agree you hit the nail on the head there.

Be well IAN 2411

[Thorne]

Good call by the Judge, but the surprising thing is the previous of the man, for the life of me I just cannot understand how the police let this filth get away with his crimes for so long.

Don't know that I'd blame the police. Seems at first glance they did their jobs by arresting him. It's the court, the judges, the lawyers, which set him back on the streets again.

Now this guy was a murder waiting to happen.

Obviously, his previous stints in prison did not "rehabilitate" him. Gee, THAT'S a surprise!

I am not sure how the mind of a kidnapper and rapist goes

It's quite simple, really. "You've got what I want, I deserve it, and you're no better than a piece of shit on the sole of my shoe." Fairly typical of most criminal minds.

You could go as far as to say if a person kidnaps, rapes and the victim ends up dead it is premeditated.

A pretty valid generalization, but there have been a couple of high-profile cases here in the US where the victim has turned up alive and more-or-less well.

Here in the UK this guy will end up in a soft jail getting three meals a day, television, a games room, a library, and gymnasium. He/she will more than likely get a visitor once a month that sympathises with his hardship, and probably a liberal social worker telling him the law was a bit harsh.

Yeah, this is exactly the kind of prison time I'm advocating against! Hard time should, indeed, be HARD time.

Not me personally but someone that is a very good friend of mine, and it brought home just how close we all are from the next pointless murder about to happen.

I'm sorry to hear that. You, and his/her loved ones, have my condolences. I've been fortunate in this regard. I know of no one, personally, who has suffered in this manner.

The trouble with locking them away as you said is the mental health act in the UK, and after a few months it would be played on by his/her lawyers.

I'm not sure why this would matter. If the criminal has been deemed sane enough to stand trial, he's sane enough to pay for his crime. If he's been locked up for life, what difference does his mental health have? Just another one of those human rights he's given up by not being human.

Sorry that’s a no, no, read above because in the UK it is a good get out clause.

I think I'd have to stand pat on this one. Perhaps the laws might need to be changed, but there are some who are truly mentally ill when they commit their crimes. And some of them could be treated to have that mental illness controlled. You can justify institutionalizing someone who is ill, either physically or mentally, but I don't see how you can justify withholding treatment for that illness, or for maintaining him in an institution once his illness has been cured, or at least controlled. Yes, the restrictions on this issue would need to be tightened down, a lot, but the attempt at healing such a person should be made.

No privileges as that comes under human rights, his/her victim had their privileges taken away the moment they died, the main one being the privilege of life.

Yes, I realize that. Still, allowing limited privileges for specific behavior, such as attending rehabilitation courses, undergoing treatments, even just for good behavior, shouldn't be cast aside so easily. For one thing, the promise of gaining some privileges can greatly reduce problems within the prison. The threat of then losing those privileges can help keep the criminal on the straight and narrow. Except in the cases of the most hard-core, incorrigible criminals I can't see unilaterally withholding at least the possibility of earning privileges. And those kinds of criminals are the ones who should be at the top of the list for the death penalty anyway.

Yes, I will agree you hit the nail on the head there.

You needn't act so surprised!

[thir]

Yeah, this is exactly the kind of prison time I'm advocating against! Hard time should, indeed, be HARD time.

Well yes, isn't it weird that people do not quew up to get in jail?

I think I'd have to stand pat on this one. Perhaps the laws might need to be changed, but there are some who are truly mentally ill when they commit their crimes. And some of them could be treated to have that mental illness controlled. You can justify institutionalizing someone who is ill, either physically or mentally, but I don't see how you can justify withholding treatment for that illness, or for maintaining him in an institution once his illness has been cured, or at least controlled. Yes, the restrictions on this issue would need to be tightened down, a lot, but the attempt at healing such a person should be made.

I agree here. Am thinking of cases where people go crazy...for instance soldiers, suffering from post traumatic stress disorder or chemical poisening - which can affect the brain. People who have been tortured. People who grew up under draconian circumstances, for instance during wars or natural catastrophies. Or people who are simply born crazy because there is something wrong with their genes.

You hear of soldiers who get violents after wars, so what to do with them? Send them to harsh labour for the rest of their lives without treatment because they wanted to serve their country and go crazy in the process?

I have hard of cases where especially people from the latter category have repeatedly asked for help or treatment before they killed, but have been denied.

I am only saying this to point out that things can be rather more complicated than they seem.