New Kink Label?

[denuseri]

<<again resisting the urge to break out with yet another long post to correct the oft misconsepted view of a wonderfully done work that shows the true bueaty and freedom found in submission.


smh. Its as far from mysogeny as one can get in fact and i adamitly disagree with the above interpetation. But i have allready expoused on it enough, in too many other threads, i am a kajira in every manner and meaning of the word, in fact every single female thats ever been "owned is" a kajira as much as she is a slave or a "pet" or whatever you want to call it.

[littlepet]

Hi Seri, "Kajira" is a word invented by John Norman to describe the slaves of his Gor series. (Which I realize you know this, it's just leading to my point) I find the books misogynistic and distasteful. (more explanation in the long reply I made to you on your own thread, with a couple copy/paste jobs as just two examples) While I recognize that you do not agree with my interpretation, it's an issue that we will have to agree to disagree on.

I know, for example that some people who are not into the TPE type of relationship might find me being owned offensive, and that would be fine. Because every person is entitled to their views. I think it can be hard to have views that are strongly conflicting without seeking to convert, but I think I can say I view the books as distasteful without having the need for you to see them the same way. Though if you ever feel that I'm moving into conversion territory let me know. Because I believe the autonomy of other people is important and I don't want to step on that. And sometimes I do.

I was raised in a fundamentalist household and at times that habit can be very hard to break.

But I feel very strongly that John Norman's Gor books display a Master/slave relationship in a way that I find misogynistic and disturbing. So, in light of that, the term he invented for his slaves: "Kajira" is a term that I find equally misogynistic and distasteful and would ask that you kindly never apply it to me.

[MasterDragon]

Hi Seri, "Kajira" is a word invented by John Norman to describe the slaves of his Gor series. (Which I realize you know this, it's just leading to my point) I find the books misogynistic and distasteful. (more explanation in the long reply I made to you on your own thread, with a couple copy/paste jobs as just two examples) While I recognize that you do not agree with my interpretation, it's an issue that we will have to agree to disagree on.

I know, for example that some people who are not into the TPE type of relationship might find me being owned offensive, and that would be fine. Because every person is entitled to their views. I think it can be hard to have views that are strongly conflicting without seeking to convert, but I think I can say I view the books as distasteful without having the need for you to see them the same way. Though if you ever feel that I'm moving into conversion territory let me know. Because I believe the autonomy of other people is important and I don't want to step on that. And sometimes I do.

I was raised in a fundamentalist household and at times that habit can be very hard to break.

But I feel very strongly that John Norman's Gor books display a Master/slave relationship in a way that I find misogynistic and disturbing. So, in light of that, the term he invented for his slaves: "Kajira" is a term that I find equally misogynistic and distasteful and would ask that you kindly never apply it to me.

I am not going to go far into this for the feelings of other and others property, so I will say this:

littlepet, you are absolutely correct and might I say you have a beautiful way of putting things nicely and adding only what you feel is necessary since the Gorean series is 'broken', blind and so much more.

It pains me to see the traditions fall away to fiction.

Master Dragon AKA Angel Of Pain

[littlepet]

Thanks, MasterDragon.

[denuseri]

Oh dont worry i wont directly call you a kajira.

And if i were to do so it would be as the highest of compliments.

I am fully aware of the word and its meaning, i also see that my words will be wasted to some degree trying to convience you otherwise,, no one is trying to convert, i only wish to clairafiy that the work is in fact not mysoginist and obviously been misinterpeted by many incuding yourself . the suposition made by you is very much like calling all islamics terrorists, which couldnt be farther from the truth.

Yes when it is slandered in such a way we who follow its tenents in the manner in which the author wrote them to be; ussually take offence. Just as you do when your way is attacked by others.

That being said, forgive me if i have offended you. Especially if it is just by being what i am ...a kajira

[sisterhoney61 {RW}]

Dammit, denu, now your posts have me longing to return to Gor and become a kajira again! ; )

[alpha_Straye]

i think pet is a very pleasant term and i can see how it could be used as a label of Ownership beyond it's usual use as a term of endearment. It does, however, seem to me to be less of a category and more of a ..mm.. 'relabeling for personal taste'. Nothing wrong with that however *smile*.

[denuseri]

I am happy we can agree to disagree.

I hope this will in no way effect our continued relationship here.

I do respect that you have your own opinions. I will however continue to rebut those expressions that I see as close minded and defend with verve my position on this topic.

As the Japanese say: "Absorb what is useful".

[littlepet]

Seri,

We were so close to happy lollipops and gummi bears but then close-minded came up. :P

Me thinking rape is wrong isn't close minded.

Me thinking that to subjugate any random woman because she "must" want it is wrong, is not close minded.

Me thinking that submission to men is not the nature of ALL women is not close minded.

Me thinking that for those women who do possess varying degrees of submission that most don't really secretly want to be fully owned by a male with no rights, is not close minded.

Me thinking John Norman is insane, is an obvious conclusion just by reading his insane rambling letter to his readers at the end of "Witness of Gor"

It's a little "special" in my opinion.

My evil commentary of the letter can be found here should anyone be so inclined:

http://gor-issues.wetpaint.com/page/...s+just+FICTION



At the end of the day what this comes down to is I think a certain author is a misogynist and a crazy person and that his books suck.

I'm not attacking your lifestyle. I'm attacking the books that are the basis. That might be a thin line to you and it might cross into too personal of a territory for you, and if so I apologize. It's not my desire to cause anyone any hurt feelings or emotional anguish (well except John Norman of course), but I think the man is insane.

And I can't just "NOT" critique a person I feel is a garden slug and his work, just because someone else decided he was wonderful and decided to base some major chunk of their life on him.

[littlepet]

Also, I have no bad feelings toward YOU, Seri. I think you are a nice person. I admire your fire and that you don't back down from a fight. I consider it an admirable quality and not just when i do it. :P I have no hostile feelings toward you. You simply have different views than I do on a series of books and an author. And both of us consider our sides very important to us. because it's not just a "book" or "series of books" it's an attitude.

You feel that your lifestyle isn't understood. I feel that you can live however you want but that Norman should be on a thorazine drip and not allowed to mingle with the populace.

[denuseri]

Yes exactly lilpet..an attitude indeed.....

That i see all too often mis-interperated by people that are unable to seperate the fictional portrayal of a setting in a book, from the inherient philosophical virtues expoused by the writter of truth , honor and love found between the lines through out the volume of its bredth.

I never said you had to see it my way.

and i say this with all due respect:

from my perch in this tree, that to say you are not attacking my beliefs all the while you continue to chop and chop over and over with the same ax (argument) at the basis of my beliefs (or its roots tht being the books) seems to me a bit to much to swallow as is.

I am out, this is beyound thread drift, for this topic. Pm me if u really wish to continue or have something "new" to contribute.

Even if you dont agree with my terminology.

May you find peace my sister of the collar.

[littlepet]

I agree, this discussion has become tired. I'm not trying to attack you personally, feel however you wish. Not once did I in any way misinterpret anything about your lifestyle because I have no clue WHAT you do, nor does it matter to me one way or the other as long as it's consensual and you are happy. My discussion about the amorality of the novels was just that. I made clear many times I think Norman's views about women are wrong, even outside the novels. I'm not sure how much more explicit I could have gotten.

And when I say I believe Norman's philosophies are wrong, I mean...Factually incorrect. Though I do think the man is also a misogynist, but I'm fairly certain that point got through the noise of everything else I said.