"Barely Submissive"- A Question of Being

[Flaming_Redhead]

Are we stuck at 'barely submissive'? Is that as far as we can ever hope to go? Is there a way, ways even, that we can step out of this almost-there box and be more of what we dream we can be? Is it possible to be shown the way out of "barely" and led towards that beautiful abyss of total submission? Is it worth the struggle of becoming or do we just give up and accept the place we are, even if it's not where we want to be?

This conversation with tessa came about because of Lord Hemloc's personal ad. He was looking for a slave which I have never considered myself to be. I've never wanted to be a slave due to some negative feelings about the whole idea of just giving in completely, and if I take an honest look at myself, I'm barely even submissive. However, upon reading the ad, it touched something way down deep in my soul. The problem is that deep inside my soul there's a hole you don't wanna see. It's an ugly, foul, black abyss where madness rules, and if I listen to the whispers of the demons that dwell down there for very long, I begin to long for death to come and take me. This madness interferes with my need to submit, and it is definitely a need because when dominance is withheld from me I am greatly frustrated and unhappy. I imagine this is quite confusing to my dominant since I resist him at every opportunity. Why? I've been thinking about it for a long time, and I believe it's due to absolute terror. I can remember when just the thought of being collared would almost send me into a panic attack, but I still kept searching...my need driving me onward in spite of the fear. When I read "Story of O" based on a friend's recommendation, I thought it was very erotic, but I was troubled for O. I was angry with her each time she gave in to the demands of Rene who obviously didn't love her at all. I was angry because I'm also guilty of having let myself be used by people who didn't deserve to lick the bottom of my shoes. I was hopeful about Sir Stephen, only to discover that my worst fears were realized in the end. I have trust and abandonment issues for good reason, and the book echoes the questions that I ask myself. If I do everything he wants, will he love me or despise me? Does he love me, or is he using my need to be loved and accepted to manipulate me as has happened throughout my life? What if I surrender myself completely to his will only to be abandoned when he tires of me? That right there would be the death of me for sure because I don't think I could ever give myself to someone like that more than once. Other questions also continue to nag me. What if I am never able to surrender? What if no one is willing or able to break through? I will be a very miserable person since I can't go back to vanilla. *sigh* I've resolved to keep trying. It's the only choice I have, really. Some progress is being made though not as much as I would like, so I'm not only struggling with disappointing him but also myself. It definitely helps to have a kindred spirit to talk to while drinking a Ruby Relaxer and daydreaming about riding...um....horses.

tessa, we are a team, so you are not alone! *hugs* Now, we need to think of an appropriate name for our team and get some cute uniforms, preferably something with a very short skirt and maybe some of those new-fangled thingies you call "panties."

[tessa]

Taking this on a response by response basis. All this feedback is just incredible! Thank you all!

Sir Russell, my sincere appreciation to you for what you said. You allow us to see that the challenge we don't necessarily want to be but are anyway is worth the effort and energy. You said it just right with this:

a challenge is welcome, why else would we call it training. Know that we will be there on your bad days, even if you hurt us with your words and actions because we know how hard what you do for us is.

Thank you for understanding.

My advice to anyone dealing with past events or attitudes rearing their ugly heads: take action and deal with it.

jeanne, outstanding advice. I appreciate it so much from you because of the meaning and insight you surround that advice in. You know the struggle. And there's been a shift in paradigm due to your differentiation between "give up" and "accepting". Thank you for opening my mind to the idea of what those terms can mean. And just thank you for all you said. Every word you put there is a bright light for me. ~hugs you tight~

Tom, I love how you cut straight through to the bone and expose all the rawness. I learn from you, whether it's discussing gay marriage or discussing the essentials of D/s. And I'll go ahead and say it...you're right. Fear shouldn't rule us. Without the risk, one gains nothing but regret. Thanks for being so direct about what is and isn't effective. Makes so much sense.

margaret, Red was my inspiration for the thoughts you see here. And because of you being here with us, I feel even less alone. ~hugs~

Oh firefly, you didn't ramble and you certainly didn't miss the point. Your words- "realistically submissive", "This is what you wanted. Take it.", "cling to who I am"- this and all the rest, you just knew what and how to say it so that it rang true for me. Thank you for that.

D-lish, Requiem, in my opinion, is one seriously fortunate Dom. I'm glad there's not one set of rules on just who we are and who we can become. I'm very happy for you.

The process of training is one of learning about each other so that we know the strengths and weaknesses we have and forge us into a complete whole, stronger than the parts.

Well said, Rhabbi. Learning each other is the key.

I swear, Red, you took thoughts right out of my mind and posted them here. And yes, amazing! Hey, as long as we're struggling together, right? ~huggles~

Yep, a team. But I can't believe you said anything about those "panties" thingees. Still, under a very short skirt, if they were just the right kind, they might be kinda cute. A new experience, at least.

[Flaming_Redhead]

First, I grew quickly tired of subs that were no challenge and very docile. Where is the challenge in that and where is the joy and honor of seeing someone you love work so very hard to be what both of you want her to be. morgan wants to be the best slave ever for me and for her with her strength, intelligence, and trust issues that is quite the dream.

Second, for the Dom a challenge is welcome, why else would we call it training. Know that we will be there on your bad days, even if you hurt us with your words and actions because we know how hard what you do for us is.

That's been one of my questions, also. Where's the fun in having an automatic push-button sub from the very beginning? I also wish to be the best sub ever, and believe me, it's a pretty ambitious notion. I'm not ashamed to admit that I need lots of training/discipline. The last thing you said...I need that even more.

If the problem is you, (ie nobody will ever earn your trust) then just go for it. Take the plunge even if you are scared, (under the condition that you think you have found a good one, bad doms are a dime a dozen). It's better to have a heart broken in a thousand bits repeatedly than never.

That's kinda what I did. I finally jumped, but now I'm clinging to the edge of the pool like a frightened child who's screaming, "No! No! No! I'll drown!"

Submission is trained out of you by the culture, this does not mean that you are barely submissive

I couldn't agree with you more. I've known all along that I've had some pretty bad "training." When I first told my best friend, Amy, about the lifestyle I was pursuing, she laughed her ass off and then asked a serious question. Why? She's known me forever. She calls me a "free spirit." The questions she asked were the same ones I've asked myself. Why do I want someone, a man, telling me what to do, especially with my background? *shrugs* I can't really answer that, except it's a need so strong that I walked away from a 10-year marriage.

margaret, Red was my inspiration for the thoughts you see here. And because of you being here with us, I feel even less alone. ~hugs~

I swear, Red, you took thoughts right out of my mind and posted them here. And yes, amazing! Hey, as long as we're struggling together, right? ~huggles~

Yep, a team. But I can't believe you said anything about those "panties" thingees. Still, under a very short skirt, if they were just the right kind, they might be kinda cute. A new experience, at least.

*sings* "You're the meaning in my life. You're the inspiration. You bring feeling to my life. You're the inspiration." Ok, I only do karaoke when I'm REALLY drunk (think 3 swallows of moonshine). *ggls* It's elementary, my dear tessa! Great, though barely submissive, minds tend to think alike, which is a good thing, too, 'cause I'd hate to be the only wannabe doormat in these here parts! *huggles* Of course the panties will be cute! I was thinking of a schoolgirl uniform with ruffled panties underneath. *weg*

[Dorkalicious]

Why do I want someone, a man, telling me what to do, especially with my background? *shrugs* I can't really answer that, except it's a need so strong that I walked away from a 10-year marriage.[/COLOR]

The fact that you walked away from a ten year marriage is astounding. I'm not sure how many people could do that, but I know what you mean when you say that the desire/need was that strong. It was a big reason of why I walked away from my last relationship. It was beginning to get physically painful to think about not having that aspect in the relationship...

[Flaming_Redhead]

The fact that you walked away from a ten year marriage is astounding. I'm not sure how many people could do that, but I know what you mean when you say that the desire/need was that strong. It was a big reason of why I walked away from my last relationship. It was beginning to get physically painful to think about not having that aspect in the relationship...

Lots of people were astounded! I didn't know anything about BDSM, other than some soft porn. All I knew was that I was sick and tired of being in charge. I made all the decisions, from where we went to dinner to where we spent our vacations to buying our home to when we had sex and in which position, and then dealing with any fallout from those decisions pretty much all by myself. I guess I expected more from a man 11 years my senior. No matter how I tried to tell him to step up and be a man, in the bedroom or out, he only whined that he didn't know what to do. I've spent my entire adult life topping him from the bottom as well as blatently topping him, and he only showed some backbone when it came to custody of our son. I'm living with the ramifications of my decisions, but I feel it was the only way to keep my sanity, literally. I had 2 bouts of severe depression during my marriage. The first time, 3 years into the marriage, I was in complete denial of what the problem was and opted for medication, titrating up to the highest dose of Serzone, which was 300 mg a day, for 2 years. The second time, 4 years after going off the medication, I opted for marriage counseling which didn't save the marriage but made me realize it was okay to let go. I only weighed 99 pounds when I left him. I feel much better now, though I still suffer from insomnia. I have a chance to start over, and I'm trying really hard not to be the bossy, nagging bitch I was with him. It's no easy feat, especially when showing respect for a man doesn't exactly come naturally to me.

Wow! Where'd all that come from? *ggls* Back on topic, y'all!

[Logic1]

Lots of people were astounded! I didn't know anything about BDSM, other than some soft porn. All I knew was that I was sick and tired of being in charge. I made all the decisions, from where we went to dinner to where we spent our vacations to buying our home to when we had sex and in which position, and then dealing with any fallout from those decisions pretty much all by myself. I guess I expected more from a man 11 years my senior. No matter how I tried to tell him to step up and be a man, in the bedroom or out, he only whined that he didn't know what to do. I've spent my entire adult life topping him from the bottom as well as blatently topping him, and he only showed some backbone when it came to custody of our son. I'm living with the ramifications of my decisions, but I feel it was the only way to keep my sanity, literally. I had 2 bouts of severe depression during my marriage. The first time, 3 years into the marriage, I was in complete denial of what the problem was and opted for medication, titrating up to the highest dose of Serzone, which was 300 mg a day, for 2 years. The second time, 4 years after going off the medication, I opted for marriage counseling which didn't save the marriage but made me realize it was okay to let go. I only weighed 99 pounds when I left him. I feel much better now, though I still suffer from insomnia. I have a chance to start over, and I'm trying really hard not to be the bossy, nagging bitch I was with him. It's no easy feat, especially when showing respect for a man doesn't exactly come naturally to me.

Wow! Where'd all that come from? *ggls* Back on topic, y'all!

o.m.g that was deep from the heart.
really touching and I definitely feel your pain and hardships there. I do hope you find exactly what you are looking for.
Good job working to solve your problem! You are one strong woman!

Submission is a gift given from the sub to the Dominant and not the other way around.

[Playfulsub]

I've spent my entire adult life topping him from the bottom as well as blatently topping him, and he only showed some backbone when it came to custody of our son. I'm living with the ramifications of my decisions, but I feel it was the only way to keep my sanity, literally. I had 2 bouts of severe depression during my marriage. The first time, 3 years into the marriage, I was in complete denial of what the problem was and opted for medication, titrating up to the highest dose of Serzone, which was 300 mg a day, for 2 years. The second time, 4 years after going off the medication, I opted for marriage counseling which didn't save the marriage but made me realize it was okay to let go. I only weighed 99 pounds when I left him. I feel much better now, though I still suffer from insomnia. I have a chance to start over, and I'm trying really hard not to be the bossy, nagging bitch I was with him. It's no easy feat, especially when showing respect for a man doesn't exactly come naturally to me.

Wow, thanks for sharing that. Saving my sanity is the one reason I might justify ending my marriage. It may come to that, eventually.

[sidhewolf]

This conversation with tessa came about because of Lord Hemloc's personal ad. He was looking for a slave which I have never considered myself to be. I've never wanted to be a slave due to some negative feelings about the whole idea of just giving in completely, and if I take an honest look at myself, I'm barely even submissive. However, upon reading the ad, it touched something way down deep in my soul. The problem is that deep inside my soul there's a hole you don't wanna see. It's an ugly, foul, black abyss where madness rules, and if I listen to the whispers of the demons that dwell down there for very long, I begin to long for death to come and take me. This madness interferes with my need to submit, and it is definitely a need because when dominance is withheld from me I am greatly frustrated and unhappy. I imagine this is quite confusing to my dominant since I resist him at every opportunity. Why? I've been thinking about it for a long time, and I believe it's due to absolute terror. I can remember when just the thought of being collared would almost send me into a panic attack, but I still kept searching...my need driving me onward in spite of the fear. When I read "Story of O" based on a friend's recommendation, I thought it was very erotic, but I was troubled for O. I was angry with her each time she gave in to the demands of Rene who obviously didn't love her at all. I was angry because I'm also guilty of having let myself be used by people who didn't deserve to lick the bottom of my shoes. I was hopeful about Sir Stephen, only to discover that my worst fears were realized in the end. I have trust and abandonment issues for good reason, and the book echoes the questions that I ask myself. If I do everything he wants, will he love me or despise me? Does he love me, or is he using my need to be loved and accepted to manipulate me as has happened throughout my life? What if I surrender myself completely to his will only to be abandoned when he tires of me? That right there would be the death of me for sure because I don't think I could ever give myself to someone like that more than once. Other questions also continue to nag me. What if I am never able to surrender? What if no one is willing or able to break through? I will be a very miserable person since I can't go back to vanilla. *sigh* I've resolved to keep trying. It's the only choice I have, really. Some progress is being made though not as much as I would like, so I'm not only struggling with disappointing him but also myself. It definitely helps to have a kindred spirit to talk to while drinking a Ruby Relaxer and daydreaming about riding...um....horses.

tessa, we are a team, so you are not alone! *hugs* Now, we need to think of an appropriate name for our team and get some cute uniforms, preferably something with a very short skirt and maybe some of those new-fangled thingies you call "panties."

Tessa and All,

This is a Great topic I think <soft smiles>, and raises some very valid points, and I have read them all. Though I have chosen Reds posted response to give my own experience on things She writes about. Because I can soooo relate to Her thoughts.

Back in the beginning of my Journey into the BDSM Style of relating, I had a Mentor who later became my *M* for a time of 3 years. All of the questions and fears you write of Red, I experienced. Including the feeling of "abandonement" when I was Released....and all the devastation you speak of percieving it may be should it happen to you. Though it was never Really that....however I percieved it to be so for a while. It was simply Time, however I fought and struggled for it not to be. It Was! That Reality was very hard for me. As hard as you describe. I quit my job of 8 years, took to my bed, as if terminally ill, and even had my lymph nodes swell all over my body. The bottom line Really, was my struggle with Me. When I resolved that, I was better for it All. My last and final, and most difficult Gift and Lesson from my *M*and Mentor of that day. And I am soooo very Blessed for it!

Truly one cannot Give Control one does not have. One must have Power to hand ones Power over to Someone else. So could it be for You and Other(s) who think they are "Barely Submissive", that is actually Owning one's own Power? "Barely Submissive" means *to me* that it is My Choice to Whom I Submit. I have no obligation to Submit to Anyone or Anything I do not wish to. And I will NOT Submit, nor Give My Submission, simply because it exists within me, nor because of my need for it to be Accepted/Taken....even with the ache that causes. "Barely Submissive" means *to me* that I am no ones doormat, that I have a brain that functions well, that even as Slave I am a Person First, and I have no need, desire, nor tolerance for abuse, and that no matter who or what comes or goes I have my own Spirit. I am also quite mischevious <WEG>.

In my entire Life I have only actually Submitted to 2 other PPL. And I am primarily Dominant with others. Does that make me "Barely Submissive"? Or does that just make me Knowledgable enough and Experienced enough to Know the differences of what Is and what is not?

For me, "Barely Submissive" means I have walked and struggled through the Fire, and I have come out the other side Whole. It means I have the opportunity to continue to Grow and Learn, and I have and I will. Pain is sometimes the best Teacher <G>.

It is said that *when the Pupil is Ready, the Teacher Will Appear*. I believe and Know this to be True. It is also said * a Time and a Season for Everything*. Faith is the key to these doors then?

Respectfully~SidheWolf