Non 24/7

[Guera]

I'm curious how other pairs work out their "bedroom only" WIITWD relationship? My him and I are also friends and "romantic partners" and both of us are willing to "sub" for eachother, in terms of serving as a support system for the other. In the bedroom though, there is no switching....

Our "bedroom" roles do extend into RL quite a bit (and he is adamant about it, even when I am not as rigid as he is), but in other areas he is definitely dominant over me. For instance I am having to buy a new car right now, and I am a quivering mass of indecisive jello, and he truly is having trouble containing his frustration with me.

I am starting to sense that this ambiguity is ultimately causing problems. I am not sure that my dominance can be maintained if I regularly hand the reins over to him, in RL. (for instance, asking him to take charge of the buying a car thing). On the other hand, maybe it is just a sign that our relationship is not mature enough at this point, to withstand this "switching".

What do others think? Can this work? What should I tweak? (hmm.. that's a good question....)

[Guera]

A couple other things I should mention

1- he has repeatedly specifically stated his wish for a 24/7 relationship, replete with being led around on a leash, available to serve. he is also very shy and worried about the social repercussions of this. He is from a macho culture.

2- I would not mind a 24/7 relationship, but I don't really desire one. To me, it is much more of a turn on and reaffirmation, that he can have complete freedom (and I) and that we can relate in a egalitarian way, but that we, underneath it all, make the CHOICE to define ourselves the way we do.

[_ID_]

It will work if you define the roles. If you don't the lack of rules will allow his alpha self that relinquishes and thrives in submission to you in the bedroom will overtake and possibly pollute the bedroom, and as a result quite possibly frustrate the harmony that you have out of the bedroom.

[Guera]

IDCD
You summed that up very nicely!

[FirstBorn]

Well i can safely say 24/7 is not for me. Im thinking the reasons are pretty much the same as yours. But i have come to formulate it differently.

To me the fact that my sub is one person in play and a different much more dominant and image aware person outside. Well that is my actual kink.

I have had a 24/7 sub and what happened was i came to think of her as a constant strain on my imagination and life in general, simply because i felt i had to judge myself for every command and decision, instead of just going with it and maybe finding out not to do so again in debriefing.

Im not saying its the same for everyone, probably the issue with my 24/7 relationship was her basic lack of individualism and me overthinking it.

If your not ready to take on the task either for lack of desire or insecurity. Then dont ruin a good relationship by changing it. Maybe thatll lead to other issues but thats life for you.

[Guera]

I have had a 24/7 sub and what happened was i came to think of her as a constant strain on my imagination and life in general, simply because i felt i had to judge myself for every command and decision, instead of just going with it and maybe finding out not to do so again in debriefing.
...

If your not ready to take on the task either for lack of desire or insecurity. Then dont ruin a good relationship by changing it. Maybe thatll lead to other issues but thats life for you.

Two more great insights

[FirstBorn]

Im just wondering about the car thing.
Telling him "you decide what well pay and for wich car" i obviusly handing over dominance.
If you wanted the job done and to remain in control only thing to change would be how you said it.
"heres xxxx $ go buy a nice car for your mistress and bring back the rest"
Upon delivery all you do is an inspection and evaluation of the returned cash and beat the crap out of him for bringing a car with dirty tires... (sorry got carried away there)

Having control and or dominance does not imply making every tiny decision. If it does to a partner, theyr looking for more of a parent than a dom/me, from my perspective.

Most likely that was one of the issues i/we had trying 24/7.

[Ozme52]

Service is service. Whether it is instructing him to negotiate on your behalf buying the car or sucking your toes.

Your attitude and perception that he is serving your needs and desires is all you need to make it work.

[Wiscoman]

Service is service. Whether it is instructing him to negotiate on your behalf buying the car or sucking your toes.

Your attitude and perception that he is serving your needs and desires is all you need to make it work.

This is what I was thinking. Being Dom doesn't come with superpowers -- you're not automatically good at everything. He's going to be better than you at a lot of things and that's just a fact.

If it bothers him, just tell him that he's finally good for something other than loosening the caps on pickle jars for you. That ought to knock him down a peg.

On the 24/7 thing, that's something you're going to have to work out for yourselves. Do it for a day, a week, a month, whatever and see how it works for both of you. Then maybe you can tweak it a bit and find a happy medium.

[Guera]

Service is service. Whether it is instructing him to negotiate on your behalf buying the car or sucking your toes.

Your attitude and perception that he is serving your needs and desires is all you need to make it work.

I agree with this in principle, but it is not what I want all the time. I think the problem (which IDCD may have nailed) is that I really don't want to go through every big decision in a F/m role. But... I think that the switching, even to F/M (as opposed to f/M) is starting to hurt. But maybe .. ack, the vacillating is starting already.

[Guera]

On a tangent that is not really a tangent, here is a picture of a truck that my him rebuilt for me. This was on blocks for years, and he, with lots of dirt-crawling, wrench-slinging, grease-eating, and detsailed-tasking (not that kind of task), made into a running classic (that still need lots of TLC... $$$). Anyone who is into details, please feel free to PM me. (sorry, I am "new" to this site again, after the crash, so I can't post links or pictures, even if they are internal links)

wwwdotbdsmlibrarydotcom/forums/album.php?albumid=1173
or just go to my profile and look at albums

Anyhow, this is what led me to get him a collar. I had to do LOTS of introspection about allowing myself to accept his devotion, trusting myself, and trusting him. It hurt to go there, but in the end I was much happier. I think now I am facing the next step.

[Wiscoman]

(sorry, I am "new" to this site again, after the crash, so I can't post links or pictures, even if they are internal links)

Try going into the Fun & Games threads and bumping up your post count there. You can do it pretty quickly.

That's what I did.

[Guera]

"and beat the crap out of him for bringing a car with dirty tires..."
hehehe I can guarantee I would get a car with dirty tires.

I don't think that he expects me to make every tiny decision, but I respect his input, always.

I think the problem is attitude, as in, he doesn't like seeing me act as lowly as I have been. So it's not so much that I need to dominate him some how, as I need to get my own *(& % together.ugh, I hate it when I have to take responsibility for myself. drat.

[FirstBorn]

[I]as I need to get my own *(& % together.ugh, I hate it when I have to take responsibility for myself. drat.

Excately my problem really, i dont fake emotions well and really prefer not to. Being concerned about something thou is a normal human response. Even if my sub does enjoy the beast within more than my polite, questioning or pondering attitude. I really need those moods and the responses they bring out, to make up my mind on big decisions.

That is i realised im more complex than just plain dominant and thus need more complex responses than just submission to have a fulfilling relationship.

I dont really know if i can explain this in english, but i guess my sub hoped for perfection in me and i really dont care too much about how people see me.

What is clear is that i can only speak for my personality and shortcommings in this one experience.

[leo9]

Excately my problem really, i dont fake emotions well and really prefer not to. Being concerned about something thou is a normal human response. Even if my sub does enjoy the beast within more than my polite, questioning or pondering attitude. I really need those moods and the responses they bring out, to make up my mind on big decisions.

That is i realised im more complex than just plain dominant and thus need more complex responses than just submission to have a fulfilling relationship.

I dont really know if i can explain this in english, but i guess my sub hoped for perfection in me and i really dont care too much about how people see me.

That's the difference between 24/7 and bedroom. It's not whether you wear a collar all day. It's that you can play a role for an hour or two in a bedroom scene, but nobody wants to play a role all the time. It can only become a lifestyle if both people - not just the sub - feel they don't have to play roles, they can be themselves, with everything they are, weaknesses and all, while living a D/s relationship.

My ex-slave used to make a joke of it, when I screwed up in some way she would say "Master is always right even when He's wrong!"

I once had a visit from a Domme, and when she showed an interest in my jewellery I had to scratch around to find samples, and my wife told me off for not having had them ready. I commented to my visitor "Have I mentioned that I'm the Dom here?" My wife smiled: "I serve my Master by reminding him of things he needs to do. People who don't know could mistake it for nagging."

[Guera]

thanks all. Men are good for something! (lots of things, but I digress)

I hope I get more responses, especailly from subs... That constant craving, how it colors the mind, it mystifies me, though I think I get most of it, most of the time. Add to that, male psychology (even though he thinks I am more male than he is). Here is a link to an external site, this article looks interesting but I haven't read it yet.

[CuriousNYsub]

Hi Guera,

I haven't been on this site long, but I think I can relate to your troubles. I am currently exploring this lifestyle with an old friend of mine. Quick back story - we had a sexual encounter when I was a lot younger (we naturally fell into a D/s type of scene) but never had a relationship, per say. We remained close friends and would "slip up" every once in a while when we were in between vanilla relationships. Recently, we have embarked on a more consistent relationship (but have yet to label it) and are having a great time exploring this world together in the bedroom, although we don't talk about it much outside the bedroom.

My friend has known me a long time, been my best friend even. I think he has always been attracted to me because Im independent and ambitious. In fact, I would go as far to say, until recently, I have retained a lot of the control in this relationship (people used to call me his Estella because he chased me for years).

In the past, when it was really just a bedroom thing, I loved being submissive to him. Still do. But as we approach a more meaningful relationship, I am having a really hard time being submissive outside the bedroom. It feels like a constant power struggle. I'm still interested in exploring it though...but I think he is sensing my apprehension, which is why he isn't pushing the issue...


So, kind of the inverse of your situation? How do I submit to him and retain the dominant side of my personality that I know he loves (and that I'm not ready to lose touch with).

I have another question to throw out to the forum. How did you tranfer from bedroom only to 24/7? And, how do you know when to start talking about it?

[leo9]

How do I submit to him and retain the dominant side of my personality that I know he loves (and that I'm not ready to lose touch with).

I love to dominate strong women, it's what I've done most of my life: I define my perfect partner as "submissive bossy bitch." So I know it can be done, because I've seen some great women do it. As far as I can see, you need to do two things.

(1) Recognise that submitting to him does not change who you are to the rest of the world. To everyone else, you can and should remain the dominant woman he knows and loves. My late wife was known in her office as a tough cookie who wouldn't take shit from anyone. That's the only reason they didn't assume she was abused when she came to work with chain bruises round her neck or whip welts showing above her shirt collar.

(2) Recognise that submissive does not equal weak: it takes admirable strength to be a good sub. He does not want you to turn into a helpless pink bimbo. He wants all your strength, he just wants it to be at his command. Think of the military: it's not weakness when soldiers obey. We love "G.I. Jane," not just for Viggo Mortensen beating up Demi Moore in cuffs, but for the whole theme of a tough super-competent woman proving her strength by submitting to brutal degrading orders.

Hope this helps.

[CuriousNYsub]

I love to dominate strong women, it's what I've done most of my life: I define my perfect partner as "submissive bossy bitch." So I know it can be done, because I've seen some great women do it. As far as I can see, you need to do two things.

(1) Recognise that submitting to him does not change who you are to the rest of the world. To everyone else, you can and should remain the dominant woman he knows and loves. My late wife was known in her office as a tough cookie who wouldn't take shit from anyone. That's the only reason they didn't assume she was abused when she came to work with chain bruises round her neck or whip welts showing above her shirt collar.

(2) Recognise that submissive does not equal weak: it takes admirable strength to be a good sub. He does not want you to turn into a helpless pink bimbo. He wants all your strength, he just wants it to be at his command. Think of the military: it's not weakness when soldiers obey. We love "G.I. Jane," not just for Viggo Mortensen beating up Demi Moore in cuffs, but for the whole theme of a tough super-competent woman proving her strength by submitting to brutal degrading orders.

Hope this helps.

Thanks leo9, this is helpful to me especially since we both struggling to figure out what we are doing and what we each want in terms of D/s, as well as our overall relationship. It's an interesting path - I certainly appreciate all of advice on this site.

Happy New Year!

[Pflutter]

There is so much good info here. I've been struggling with these ideas for a while and will be embroidering some of the quotes on pillows soon.

Having control and or dominance does not imply making every tiny decision. If it does to a partner, theyr looking for more of a parent than a dom/me, from my perspective.

Some people are looking for Daddy, but that's not me.

I hope I get more responses, especailly from subs... That constant craving, how it colors the mind, it mystifies me, though I think.

We aim to please! That constant craving...can be a real PITA, or a great pleasure, right now which it is depends on how much free time I have. I haven't figured out how to make it work in an integrated way yet. I'll add it to the list.

Recognise that submitting to him does not change who you are to the rest of the world.

Recognise that submissive does not equal weak: it takes admirable strength to be a good sub. He does not want you to turn into a helpless pink bimbo. He wants all your strength, he just wants it to be at his command.

Reconciling these ideas is one of the toughest issues I've ever worked on. I don't think leaving either aspect of my personality behind is an option any more. I really like the "packages to open" idea because it acknowledges the struggle without making me feel as if just the existance of a struggle means I'm doing something wrong. The learning curve here is steep, but there are people to help and I'm so grateful for that.

[Mastrovenice]

To me the 24/7 slash bedroom debate is interesting but overrated as an issue. In many ways its better to just think of your D/s experience as part of your ongoing relationship and not get caught up in the external pressures to label it something else; as if somehow '24/7'ers are more real or more valid. The important thing is to grow your D/s until it reaches a 'natural' balance. A highly functioning woman(or man) can still be submissive to one's partner and maintain the control they need to function in their individual life.

Of course it all requires negotiation and an expected honesty in communication between partners. Boundaries should be set and then examined on a regular basis. Expect to spend a considerable amount of time just talking about your roles and how you want to inhabit them. Also one must always expect that things will get muddled and confused and there should be tools at hand to make sure that conflicts are resolved satisfactorily. Overall you should forget about any preconceived notions about how it should work and whether one is truly 24/7 or not. If either partner wants more, or less, there should be a way to manage this without breaking the relationship IF the relationship is healthy.

And what really is the point? I believe it is to live with D/s as a structural backbone to everyday interactions. Not that ALL interactions should outwardly reflect a D/s bias, but that inwardly each of us knows and embraces our role and tries to further the depth of one's commitment to it, and the interaction that brings us so much satisfaction.

[Guera]

CuriousNYSub- I bet it is the fact that you will get down on your knees and submit to him, that is the actual turnon. I don't think you need to somehow do something to change yourself.

[Guera]

I agree with FirstBorn and Mastro and lots of other dom/mes on this site. 24/7 is not for most of us. I will go farther and say that I believe that MOST of the the people who post about living a 24/7 BDSM life are full of BS or are just experiencing a weekend high that will end very soon. Very few of those posters come back to post again about their new found lifestyle. Of course, there are a few that I have seen here, and a few I have met in RL, who are wonderfully content in a very structured 24/7 pairing.

For me, each and every time my him renews his submission to me, it is like opening a present. Its awesome. I don't want to open the present once, and just play with it for the rest of my life. Instead I see his masterful side, his strong side, his alpha side, his annoying pushy whiney anal belligerant selfish side, (and his loving, giving, smart, funny, and honest side)- and in the end I see him curled at my feet. Speaking for myself, it's great to be a domme.

[VaAugusta]

I really like what you've posted so far, it seems that you are definitely cognizant of your situation.

I don't think you need 24/7. If he's not happy with it, that's fine. It only seems like a way to pass full responsibility onto you, besides the whole sexual attraction to the idea. What I offer as a counter to entirely upsetting him in this regard is to provide a similar "opening a present" situation to him, in which he will never want to step over the line and reach full satiation. I don't really know what to suggest since you clearly know better than me, but do remember the role of a proper dominant is to leave the submissive wanting.

Best of luck!