D/s outside one's marriage

[Warbaby1943]

I don't get it either. For me a relationship is based on love, not which bits gets put into which holes. Love is love no matter if it's on-line or off. Cheating is giving love on the side without your spouses aproval. I've met girls who in theory would like to be one of many slaves, but none who when it gets around to it actually want to follow through with it. But I'm not going to judge or make assumptions. I'll just keep trying to understand, (out of my own selfish interests who wouldn't want a harem of their own).

So are you separating cheating from adultery? I could easily admit to cheating but never to adultery?

This subject has been discussed many time before here and there are always those on both sides of the issue who have strong feelings. So no matter what your view, to you you are right and nothing is going to change your mind. It is like saying, "Please don't confuse me with facts" in my opinion.

I know I'm not trying to change anyone's mind and I'm certainly not letting anyone change my mind.

[Amberxiao]

I did not mean to come across as judging anyone else. My post was mainly written with the eyes of 20/20 retrosopect. That is to say, I did BDSM with a married man who did not tell his wife about it.

It made perfect sense at the time. While I was somewhat nervous about it, he had very good reasons, or so it seemed to me, for not telling his wife about it. He also had, and still has, very good reasons for ending his relationship with his wife. The fact is, that marriage is held up by the fact that he will not be honest about who and what he is (and not just the BDSM parts, but some very core things about him) and by the fact that he's willing to be someone he's not in order to provide her with what he thinks she needs. He believes that deceiving her is the right thing to do because she would never be able to understand him otherwise, and that she would lose too much if he left her. There is also a child involved. There are a lot of good reasons for him to stay, but all of them are undermined by the fact that he's staying out of deceit. There's a lack of respect between them, on both sides, that makes my head spin. She thinks he is a child who cannot do anything without her input. He thinks she's a damsel in distress who would crumple at even the sight of the real world. They are profoundly unhappy.

When I realized that he was essentially removing her ability to make a choice by not telling her, that's when I broke it off. When I realized that he was using me to avoid making a choice of his own, that is, that he didn't have to leave her in order to have a place for his "true self", I realized that 1. we really weren't doing her any favours, and 2. if he couldn't be himself with her, he had to deal with either accepting that and staying away from outside places to get that part of himself met, or by not accepting it and leaving.

It was a very hard thing to do. I'm very, very picky about who I trust, and it's possible that I will never have another partner. This person is still a very good friend of mine, and I hope he finds happiness. But he will never find happiness as long as he continues to be bound by his own deceit. He may think it's for the good of all, and certainly, there are a lot of positive short-term results, but it's based on a profound disrespect, in the sense that he is essentially removing her ability to choose.

I also work with the developmentally disabled, and choice is a huge deal there. There are a lot of things they don't get to choose, depending on their legal status (i.e. whether they have a guardian or not) and the level of disability (in some cases, it's impossible to understand what they *do* want).

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I apologize for sounding like I was preaching at everyone. I was trying to give answers that would help someone who was in a position that I was in before, but looking back, I realize that it would only have made me feel guilty and defensive at the time. Plus, in realizing that my stance is based on one experience, I now realize that it was unfair of me to assume that all such occurrences are like the one I was in. Honesty is really important to me. I would never be comfortable in a relationship where I had to lie about something like this. I would be tremendously hurt if I found out a partner of mine had not told me about their interest in something because they feared I would be judgemental. I would feel even more hurt if they got involved with another person (cyber or in real life) without telling me. Part of this is that I am, in general, a pretty accepting person, and if they had a fetish that I couldn't get into for some reason, I'd be okay with them finding someone else to do it with. I'd just want to know. But what I really don't understand is, if someone is lying to their spouse because they know or are afraid that the spouse wouldn't accept the BDSM: why would you stay with someone who can't accept that? If it's so important to get those needs fulfilled, if it's that deep of a need that it justifies going outside the marriage... why are you in the marriage in the first place? And if it *isn't* that big of a deal, if the partner *is* worth giving it up... then why haven't you given it up?

I'm not saying it's wrong this time (though it would be if it were me in any of the positions), I'm saying I honestly don't understand it. The two things I absolutely *need* in any relationship are these: acceptance for who I am (based on the fact that I've been able to tell the person everything), and complete and open honesty. Without these two things, the marriage would be nothing to me. So, I can't really understand why someone would want to be in a marriage where they weren't accepted and could not be honest. And I do think that by not telling them about something, you are not allowing them to choose whether *they* accept it or not, and thus whether *they* want to stay in the relationship or not. Making that kind of a choice for someone without their consent... seems very dubious to me.

Again, I don't know any of the particular situations people are involved in. I also know that when I was in the above relationship, and people said that the key for determining whether it was cheating or not was whether or not you could tell the spouse, I was very vehement that they did not understand our situation. As I said, there were very good reasons for him not telling her... but in the end, they weren't good enough for me because of the fact that by not giving her the information, he wasn't allowing her to make the choice. He was *assuming* she wouldn't accept, but that she wouldn't *really* be better off without him. It amazes me how easy it was for me to ignore the inherrent arrogance of that, how easy it was for me to be convinced that he was doing it because it was best for her, how easy it was for me to disrespect her. I am very glad I am not that person today. My goal in all of this is not to blame or condemn, but to show where I have been and the mistakes I have made. I come away from this situation in agreement with the idea that it's cheating if you can't tell the spouse. For me, that *is* the litmus test. Again, I don't know all the situations out there. I know the situation I was in had a greater than average share of "good" reasons for not telling the other person. There may be some where that percentage is higher. There may be relationships where honesty really isn't a core value and it's something else that makes the marriage worthwhile. I don't understand that and it makes me wary, but not understanding doesn't make it wrong. I can only judge my own relationships, and hope to give useful information to others.

*caveat: this doesn't apply to people who have already *said* they don't want to know. I don't understand those people either, but I do believe in taking people at their word, and if they say they don't want to know, then don't tell them.

[_ID_]

Well my situation is this .... my husband knows about my submissive side, has just recently told me he wants nothing to do with the lifestyle or Dominanting me *sighs* but knows I need to fullfill that part of myself be it online or otherwise ..... He just wants no knowledge what so ever of what is going on. I'm not sure how to handle this situation as of yet because it's still very new to me. But would that be considered cheating in your book .... because if lets say ... and that's a VERY big if I decided to persue (or be persued as the case may be) by a Dominant online with the possiblity of real life interaction my husband wouldn't know about it because He's asked it to be that way. I don't know if what I just said makes sense at all but I hope so.

sugar - there is two ways to look at the situation that you might encounter. First, would the interaction you have with a Dom include sex/intercourse/fucking? If it did, would you consider it cheating? If the submission you were going to partake in were not to include sex (the act of fucking) then you could more allow what you do to fall into the more grey area of if it were cheating or not.

[TomOfSweden]

So are you separating cheating from adultery? I could easily admit to cheating but never to adultery?

This subject has been discussed many time before here and there are always those on both sides of the issue who have strong feelings. So no matter what your view, to you you are right and nothing is going to change your mind. It is like saying, "Please don't confuse me with facts" in my opinion.

I know I'm not trying to change anyone's mind and I'm certainly not letting anyone change my mind.

Nah, it's mostly just a semantics arguement. Like adultery and cheating. They are stricly speaking synonyms so it's down to how you personally define the words.

For me sharing love without your spouces knowledge is cheating, (and adultery). It's one thing if they're in on it, but if they aren't then well..... if you can't be 100% honest with your partner, then it isn't much of a relationship is it?

[Warbaby1943]

Nah, it's mostly just a semantics arguement. Like adultery and cheating. They are stricly speaking synonyms so it's down to how you personally define the words.

For me sharing love without your spouces knowledge is cheating, (and adultery). It's one thing if they're in on it, but if they aren't then well..... if you can't be 100% honest with your partner, then it isn't much of a relationship is it?

As I said, I'm not out to try to change anyone's mind and I won't have mine changed by any words I see here either.

[Ozme52]

Well my situation is this .... my husband knows about my submissive side, has just recently told me he wants nothing to do with the lifestyle or Dominanting me *sighs* but knows I need to fullfill that part of myself be it online or otherwise ..... He just wants no knowledge what so ever of what is going on. I'm not sure how to handle this situation as of yet because it's still very new to me. But would that be considered cheating in your book .... because if lets say ... and that's a VERY big if I decided to persue (or be persued as the case may be) by a Dominant online with the possiblity of real life interaction my husband wouldn't know about it because He's asked it to be that way. I don't know if what I just said makes sense at all but I hope so.

It makes perfectly good sense to me. You state he said he knows you need to fullfil that part of yourself and that he wants no knowledge of it when it occurs. In my book, you have permission to play without guilt and without jeopardizing your marriage... so long as you obey his wishes and make sure he doesn't have it "rubbed in his face" so to speak.

[Ozme52]

I guess it's different all over the world. Being gay is the vogue here. If you want to make a fast political career it's "smart" being gay. It makes it easier to get elected.

I use Holland as a civilization meter, where Holland is the most civilized land on earth and then I just compare every country to it. The less evolved a country is compared to it, the more behind it is. Even though it might have it's flaws, it makes it a lot easier to understand the world.

LMAO. I don't know if I'd go that far but I can't come up with a better example at the moment.

[TomOfSweden]

As I said, I'm not out to try to change anyone's mind and I won't have mine changed by any words I see here either.

and I can only use myself to measure. I'm just thinking of how I would feel if my girlfriend/slave had another Master on-line. I wouldn't accept it one bit. It's not a matter of jelousy but time. Both of us are busy people and if she would prioritise someone else over me romantically then we would see so little of each-other that we might as well break up.

I'd be the last person to judge anybody. If it works for you then great.

[TomOfSweden]

LMAO. I don't know if I'd go that far but I can't come up with a better example at the moment.

Yeah I know. sounds funny. But they have been among the first to adapt new liberal laws and all other nations always follows sooner all later. It's been like this since WW2. It's not based on my opinion of marijuana, just by observing political events in the world.

It's like, the more open debate and the more progressive the people in a country, the more it is like Holland.

[smilie]

hime i agree completely !!

[pixie_dust]

I am inclined to agree with what many others have already posted here. Each relationship has it's own boundaries which have been established by those individuals.

Whether one is cheating or not, can only be know by that person, however. Even if the spouse/partner does not know about the other's on-line activities. It is entirely possible that they have a "I don't mind, I just don't want to hear about it." guideline that works for them.

In my situation, Sir visits the internet often for his r/p games and has a sub overseas whom he loves dearly. She and I have talked on occasion, and we routinely ask Sir how the other is doing. For myself, I don't care to hear about his r/p adventures much, although he enjoys sharing some of the more "interesting" ones with me.