Old School what is it to you?

[damyanti]

With that said, the term “Old School” to me simply means traditional which correlates (again to me) as respect. I personally like to treat women as …well women in the manner I was taught by my father and grandfather. Women are to be cherished, respected and are to be shown that respect. Simple things like opening a door, telling them they are beautiful, walking on the street side of the side walk allowing them the building side, putting yourself between them and a passing stranger, walking them to their car at night, holding them while they cry and are vulnerable to name only a few things.

I have to say this part really impressed me, because even among those who are generally polite,...its not often these days one meets someone who knows proper rules of etiquette.

And now that I have you nice and mellow, let me piss you off...

Am I the only who has an issue with this part? (not that that ever stopped me before, lol.)

• Keeping a sub’s Dom “in the loop”. There seems to be a great deal of discussion on this site about what is or is not appropriate in that vein. To me if I’m going to build a friendship with an owned or committed sub, I want their Dom to know. He deserves the respect to know who I am, how to get in contact with me and ask any questions or express any concerns he may have. It’s the responsibility IMO of the Dom to ask “do you have a Dom…who is he?” (This does not relieve the sub of disclosure of this info.) And then NOT troll in those waters for play without the Dom knowing.

It makes sense if what you are talking about involves cyber sex or meeting for the first time in r/l and thats worthy of respect. But if you mean just befriending a woman who happens to be a sub, that sounds sexist and chuvinistic. What if that sub is male? Or switch? Do you inform a sub when you befriend her dom?

Being a sub doesnt mean I am irresposible, immature, weak and or incapable of looking after myself. Or dishonest. Or that dom gets to pick my friends.

[J-Go]

And now that I have you nice and mellow, let me piss you off...

Damyanti, thanks for the reply.
I can’t really submit a post asking for peoples opinions and then be pissed when they give them now can I? Particularly from such an attractive intelligent source!

Am I the only who has an issue with this part? (not that that ever stopped me before, lol.)

Till now, you seem to be..*looks around*


It makes sense if what you are talking about involves cyber sex or meeting for the first time in r/l and thats worthy of respect. But if you mean just befriending a woman who happens to be a sub, that sounds sexist and chuvinistic. What if that sub is male? Or switch? Do you inform a sub when you befriend her dom?

Being a sub doesnt mean I am irresposible, immature, weak and or incapable of looking after myself. Or dishonest. Or that dom gets to pick my friends. [/QUOTE]

Let me start by restating that personally I don’t care what flavor the relationship is D/s s/D gay straight, as I posted I’m speaking from my perspective as a hetero Dom as that is the only one I can speak to with any real knowledge.

I guess I’m lost here. First off I’m not exactly sure what defines a sexist or chauvinist? Then again I live in the part of the world that coined the expression “The sun don’t shine on the same dogs ass every day” I still don’t know what the hell that means! I guess being a country boy I’m unclear as to what is sexist or chauvinistic about a simple show of respect. Now I possess testicles and admittedly need things spelled out clearly for me, but I don’t see how you can respect a woman on one hand and be sexist or chauvinistic on the other. Since when did an extra effort to respect a relationship that is in place become sexist? How does sending a message to a partner saying “Hey I met your (insert title here) the other day, delightful person! She had many great things to say about you and I just wanted to introduce myself…” become belittling to a sub or anyone for that matter?

Allow me be clear as you do bring up a very good point of casual meetings. If I meet, let’s say a “person” for the sake of being inclusive in this discussion, in the chat room and introduce myself and even engage in some private chat, I’m probably not going to run to the “partner” and say “hey I talked to your partner is that OK”? What the content of the discussion is will direct that. If the conversation is benign in nature, simply getting to know someone, location family, interests that sort of stuff, I will treat that as a “meet and greet”. If I get to know them better, chat with them more I will introduce myself to their partner, one because I feel it a show of respect for the RELATIONSHIP, and two because I’d simply like to get to know them as well.

Now there is a “whole other side to that dogs ass” as this has been my experience on this and other forums. As soon as anything sexual or play in nature is sent to me privately (suggestive notes, pictures, invites to play etc.) I’m contacting the partner and introducing myself as well as full disclosure to my partner. Now before we get all up in arms on a privacy issue, I’ve got no moral or evangelical need to “tell on” anyone, I simply believe the honorable thing to do is introducing myself. If someone wants to play, great! Let’s get all parties involved and show them the respect they deserve as our partners…there’s a concept!

Old School? Yes…Sexist? Please.

[damyanti]

[B]Since when did an extra effort to respect a relationship that is in place become sexist? How does sending a message to a partner saying “Hey I met your (insert title here) the other day, delightful person! She had many great things to say about you and I just wanted to introduce myself…” become belittling to a sub or anyone for that matter?

Allow me be clear as you do bring up a very good point of casual meetings. If I meet, let’s say a “person” for the sake of being inclusive in this discussion, in the chat room and introduce myself and even engage in some private chat, I’m probably not going to run to the “partner” and say “hey I talked to your partner is that OK”? What the content of the discussion is will direct that. If the conversation is benign in nature, simply getting to know someone, location family, interests that sort of stuff, I will treat that as a “meet and greet”. If I get to know them better, chat with them more I will introduce myself to their partner, one because I feel it a show of respect for the RELATIONSHIP, and two because I’d simply like to get to know them as well.
[/COLOR]

Because before she is a (insert title here) she is a (insert name here). Its a power exchange she shares with her partner, not anyone else, so in that regard you being a Dom to me makes no more importance than saying you are straight. I guess the reason I couldn't take your statement at face value is because I value friendship and bond of trust very highly...and it did sound as if you were going behind subs back (because you didn't trust her to mention it on her own) to inform or ask permission from her Dom if you can be friends with his sub.

Personally, I don't think that a couple has to share all of their friends, I don't think its possible or healthy. And I draw the line where he gets to pick or screen or veto my friends.

If you want to meet your friends partner, then you ask her to introduce you. Going off behind her back and you two sorting it out on the level of higher authority, it changes your dynamic with her. To me your duty of friendship goes to the person you are friends with first, and their partner second. I notice, you didn't say nothing about your sub getting a phone call from the other dom in which he informs her of your friendship with his sub?
And what if your friend doesn't want you to be friends with her partner, because she thought she could confide in you without fear of things going back to him?

(of course when I say friendship, thats all I mean "vanilla" friendship)

[DowntownAmber]

I'll admit I initially read this with a chuckle and a good shake of my head. However, you've neither met J and me in "real life," nor does it seem you're familiar with our personalities through posts here at the Library; so I withdrew the chuckle, shook my head much less ardently and will respond to your concerns. (If J feels like there's anything he wants to add, I'm sure he'll chime in over my shoulder.)

[B][COLOR="Magenta"]I guess the reason I couldn't take your statement at face value is because I value friendship and bond of trust very highly...and it did sound as if you were going behind subs back (because you didn't trust her to mention it on her own) to inform or ask permission from her Dom if you can be friends with his sub.

If I speak with a Dom or a sub in chat and they send a note to J saying they met me and we had a great conversation, I would be flattered. Who doesn't like to be acknowledged?

Introductions to me aren't sinister or underhanded, so I have a really hard time looking at them as "going behind your friend's back." How does saying "hello" translate into tattling on someone?

An intro doesn't mean that my new friend and my Dom have to be best of buddies or even continue a correspondence either, it's simply nice that the person I met has recognized and acknowledged that I have a significant other that I care about and is an important part of my life. Frankly, I consider it respectful to me as well when someone I meet greets J of their own accord - that single action immediately shows they have no shady intentions or ulterior motives that they feel the need to cover up with me. It's as much about respect to me as it has anything to do with respect to my Dom.

[B][COLOR="Magenta"]Personally, I don't think that a couple has to share all of their friends, I don't think its possible or healthy. And I draw the line where he gets to pick or screen or veto my friends.

I'm again not sure how greeting a new friend's significant other translates into any of this. I don't consider it appropriate that friends are selected for me either, but I'm missing where someone popping off a note to J means he is suddenly sharing them or screening them? He simply has met them.

[B][COLOR="Magenta"]If you want to meet your friends partner, then you ask her to introduce you. Going off behind her back and you two sorting it out on the level of higher authority, it changes your dynamic with her. To me your duty of friendship goes to the person you are friends with first, and their partner second.

I think you may be warping common courtesy here because the folks involved are of a D/s persuasion, and applying some additional and unnecessary undertones to this as a result.

Let me break it down in vanilla speak:

Say you were to meet a new neighbor, and hit it off with them. You talk a few times over the fence, as you both seem to spend time in the backyard. You become friends, but have never seen their spouse as s/he tends to be at work and rarely in the yard. You know where the spouse works, however, so one day you drop in and say, "hi, I'm Amber. I've chatted a few times with your hubby over the fence and wanted to introduce myself. He's a really swell guy."

I'm missing how this is so shady?

[B][COLOR="Magenta"]I notice, you didn't say nothing about your sub getting a phone call from the other Dom in which he informs her of your friendship with his sub?

Two points to make here... First, J considers it polite to introduce himself. If the other Dom in question feels the same way and wants to contact me, they're certainly more than welcome but it's clearly not J's responsibility or business to ask him to approach me. Second, J tells me about women he meets and is friends with all on his own. (Men too, for that matter.) He has several close female friends that he talks to - some of them I am close with, some of them not so much, but I know when he sees and talks to them.

[B][COLOR="Magenta"]And what if your friend doesn't want you to be friends with her partner, because she thought she could confide in you without fear of things going back to him?

I thought partners didn't get to dictate who their significant other's friends were? If a couple of Doms become friends through one or the other's sub, then they become friends. *shrugs* Bigger tragedies have certainly occurred in the world...lol I don't mean to sound callous here, but if the sub then has to worry about sharing secrets with one over the other, well, that's up to the sub to deal with.

[B][COLOR="Magenta"]Because before she is a (insert title here) she is a (insert name here). Its a power exchange she shares with her partner, not anyone else...

People in a couple are individuals, yes. I'm nearly as Objectivist as they come so this is a concept not lost on me in the least. But none of that changes that they are also part of an entity, a relationship that they willingly choose to be a part of and identify themselves with, so why should they be insulted when other people also see them not only as an individual but as "so and so's partner?" That being the case, it is respectful to acknowledge them as themselves and also as a part of the entity they represent.

Yes, I am an individual. I identify myself on my own terms, as does my partner. However, I am also, by my own proclamation "my Dom's sub" and "my boyfriend's" partner. I chose this, I am proud of it, and if I get offended that someone recognizes me as that which I have chosen to be, I think I may need to re-evaluate what I genuinely feel about the relationship. There is a "me," there is a "him," but there is also an "us." I am very pleased when others see and respect the "us," and reach out to my partner.

Not to do that is also to disrespect me, because it shows a lack of respect for that which I as an individual have chosen.

[damyanti]

Let me break it down in vanilla speak:

Say you were to meet a new neighbor, and hit it off with them. You talk a few times over the fence, as you both seem to spend time in the backyard. You become friends, but have never seen their spouse as s/he tends to be at work and rarely in the yard. You know where the spouse works, however, so one day you drop in and say, "hi, I'm Amber. I've chatted a few times with your hubby over the fence and wanted to introduce myself. He's a really swell guy."

I'm missing how this is so shady?

/B][/SIZE]

I still think that if you befriend someone and you progress to the point where its natural to meet their significant other, it would be more normal to organize introduction by inviting or meeting them (as a couple) for coffee, dinner...

No, it would not be shady and I am sure you are a very nice person...but if a person I have never met before, showed up at my place of work to tell me that they enjoyed chatting with my boyfriend, I would find it weird and a bit frightening.

[DowntownAmber]

I still think that if you befriend someone and you progress to the point where its natural to meet their significant other, it would be more normal to organize introduction by inviting or meeting them (as a couple) for coffee, dinner...

No, it would not be shady and I am sure you are a very nice person...but if a person I have never met before, showed up at my place of work to tell me that they enjoyed chatting with my boyfriend, I would find it weird and a bit frightening.

Oh of course if coffee or lunch can be organized and you want all of you to be friends, sure. To me, a group meeting like that does imply that there is a desire (and possibly a bit of pressure) for all three of you to be friends. A quick note or a hello simply says, "I'm here, this is who I am," and then everyone can decide if they want to progress to "group buddies." When online, meeting as a couple tends to be a bit harder as well, so I still think a note of hello is a very nice gesture.

And please please please don't take this the wrong way, it is not meant as a jab or an insult (I'm simply not sure how to word this any onther way), but you're way more paranoid about people saying hello to you than I am I guess. J always takes the time to tell me about who he's met in the course of his day, who he's going to lunch or coffee or whatever with, so I never worry about being out of the loop. I still do appreciate, however, when these gals take time to acknowledge me. My "weird" alarm tends to start beeping when I feel ignored or avoided.

[J-Go]

I’d like to thank everyone for contributing to this post with a special thanks to damyanti for taking the opposing viewpoint (opposition makes for a much more interesting thread). Before everyone jumps over to the Feminism and BDSM thread I would like to clear a couple of issues. First off the thread is “Old School, What is it to you?” with 37 posts I’m the only one who had described what old school” means to me…so I would really like to here from some other folks who consider themselves “Old School”…what’s it mean to you?

The thread did turn into a good debate on disclosure so to that issue I wish to clarify my stand. Again let me restate my viewpoint is that of a Dom in a D/s relationship with a female partner. I think it important to be clear as to the why of my position. We are on a BDSM site that deals with sexual issues, a site like this is going to consist of some people looking for sex related relationships either online or in real life. Now I don’t know about the rest of the world but around here if you go to a car lot to look at cars you can expect someone is going to try to sell you a car. Just makes sense to me, if on a BDSM site you can expect someone at sometime is going to try to “sell” a relationship of some sort . It is from that stand point and that understanding that I take the stand of keeping a known partner in the loop. In MY definition of “Old School” I am honor bound to keep a subs Dom in the loop of any friendship that has built. Fairly simple and straight forward to me, and if I have learned nothing in my life simple and straight forward keeps me out of sticky situations. I have made several introductions via PM and have never had a negative response from a Dom.

But that’s “Old School” to ME, so damyanti should we develop a friendship, and I hope we do, I can guarantee two things 1) My sub will know and 2) if you have a Dom, I’ll be introducing myself.

[SubmissiveDoll]

I have to say this part really impressed me, because even among those who are generally polite,...its not often these days one meets someone who knows proper rules of etiquette.

And now that I have you nice and mellow, let me piss you off...

Am I the only who has an issue with this part? (not that that ever stopped me before, lol.)



It makes sense if what you are talking about involves cyber sex or meeting for the first time in r/l and thats worthy of respect. But if you mean just befriending a woman who happens to be a sub, that sounds sexist and chuvinistic. What if that sub is male? Or switch? Do you inform a sub when you befriend her dom?

Being a sub doesnt mean I am irresposible, immature, weak and or incapable of looking after myself. Or dishonest. Or that dom gets to pick my friends.

Actually I didn't have a problem with that part. I actually think it's polite. We're not dealing with sexism or anything here. It's just a nice thing to do, and I do the same when dealing with a Dom. If I befriend him/her I talk to their sub. If all works out, I'll have two friends instead of just one. However, I simply think it's polite, and saves potential trouble for all parties concerned in the future.