Why do most subs come with an abused background? Don't abuse them

[jiggy]

From my extensive experience as a Dom I have come across so many subs that had been abused , physically, sexually earlier in their life. It saddens me to think that such a very high proportion of subs or wanna be subs come from an abused background. And people wonder why BDSM gets a bad name

It saddens me more when other so called doms take advantage of this and make subs believe this should is a "normal" way of life that they have to accept- not knowing anything else.

I personally have a rule of NEVER taking on a sub that has had an abusive background. To me it is taking advantage of someone who really doen't know anything better and is susceptible to being seriously abused by so called doms for their own perverted purposes.

If you know of a sub in such a horrible situation - It is YOUR responsibilty help this sub.

[ceegee{Benz}]

A "true" Dominant will take a sub/slave on no matter what their background is.
A "true" Dominant will help their sub/slave see that there is more to life
than any form of abuse that the sub/slave may of encountered and guide them back onto the right path, and that all men or women are not bastards or bitches.
That is part and parcel of the Dominant's Creed.

[jiggy]

A "true" Dominant will take a sub/slave on no matter what their background is.

This is unacceptable...........A real dominant would NOT take on a sub who has been abused and knows no better

[nk_lion]

This is unacceptable...........A real dominant would NOT take on a sub who has been abused and knows no better

So if a person wants to be a sub, and has submissive tendancies, because of some ass who abused them before, they do not have the right to be one?

[Uncle_Ed]

Sexual abuse:The improper use of another person for sexual purposes, generally without their consent or under physical or psychological pressure (which may include children whether abused by parents, those in loco parentis or strangers).
Physical abuse: Where one person inflicts physical violence or pain on another.
Verbal abuse: When a person uses profanity, demeaning talk, or threatening statements.

A question, jiggy. Tricking a sub and pissing down her throat? (From another of your posts) Would that not be classed as abuse? Forgive me-but I am confused by this. You appear to dismiss a large proportion of subs, yet at the same time seem, in my opinion, to be possibly verging on abuse yourself? I am interested as my own experience clearly doesn't match your own. I only know that I have sat here many times and been moved to tears by the admissions of some subs-many of whom are well-balanced, intelligent people who have come to terms with their sexuality and their leanings. They have not supressed their memories-otherwise would be unable to openly chat about them. I cannot accept that such brave souls are victims any longer or have been diminished by their experiences. I can, however, believe that some abusers have tainted their souls by their actions.

[Rhabbi]

This is unacceptable...........A real dominant would NOT take on a sub who has been abused and knows no better

A real Dominant knows how to help a sub deal with their past and the emotions that it causes.

[Guest91408]

I personally have a rule of NEVER taking on a sub that has had an abusive background. To me it is taking advantage of someone who really doen't know anything better and is susceptible to being seriously abused by so called doms for their own perverted purposes.
If you know of a sub in such a horrible situation - It is YOUR responsibilty help this sub.

I thought very carefully about whether or not to reply to this.

Whilst I appreciate the concern shown, I think your position is utterly arbitary and incorrect. The three years I spent in a collared relationship not only centered my life, brought a sense of self worth and confidence but also saved me from a never ending spiral of depression and self harm. In short, being a sub helped me a great deal recover my belief in humanity and rebuilt my trust in others and restart my sexual desires and needs. My Dom knew my past. Knew my tastes and needs and seperated the past drives into safe, sane play. I have a harder edge, which involves blood play...but I'll be damned if anyone in the community has the right to see me as being somehow "damaged" and therefore unapproachable.

It's upto you, as the Dom, to ensure you ARENT taking advantage of anyone whether they suffered abuse in their life or not. The abuse I suffered as a child has certainly steered my life a certain way, but it does not control it. Nor would I allow others to control me through it. And yes, despite the nature of my abuse I list force play, blood play, strangulation/breathplay and physical violence in general as being amongst my interests.

But I think you'll find subs who led happy-clappy all smiles and toys childhoods are also into the same thing.

I find this kind of stereotyping hugely insulting. I've chosen to post because I'm not ashamed of my past, I wish it hadnt happened every single fucking day, but without it...I would lose a huge a part of who I am as a person. And I like who I am.

So, with respect, rather than avoiding us, try taking on a sub that has been hurt in her past...perhaps you too can provide that individual with the life enhancing experience that will set her free

[MrDom]

yes ceegee I agree it is a big part of what a Dominate is and what they should do. To teach and show a sub/slave what we are too keep them safe and that true Dom's do not abuse.

MrDom

[Rhabbi]

From my extensive experience as a Dom I have come across so many subs that had been abused , physically, sexually earlier in their life. It saddens me to think that such a very high proportion of subs or wanna be subs come from an abused background. And people wonder why BDSM gets a bad name

It saddens me more when other so called doms take advantage of this and make subs believe this should is a "normal" way of life that they have to accept- not knowing anything else.

I personally have a rule of NEVER taking on a sub that has had an abusive background. To me it is taking advantage of someone who really doen't know anything better and is susceptible to being seriously abused by so called doms for their own perverted purposes.

If you know of a sub in such a horrible situation - It is YOUR responsibilty help this sub.

Here we go again, falling for this person even thpugh he is banned.

Subs come from abused backgrounds because predators can sense the same thing a Dom can, but they take advantage of it, end of story. I am glad that jiggy is no longewr here.

[Guest91408]

im confused, was he banned after his original post?
Can/will mods delete this thread then?

[Rhabbi]

im confused, was he banned after his original post?
Can/will mods delete this thread then?

Apparently. Ask the mods, they can, but may not.

[ceegee{Benz}]

they will more than likely lock it

[DarkSister]

I have gone to reply to this a number of times and wondered whether I should or not… but I felt that the comments made are inherently without merit and I do find the generalisation insulting and demeaning of everybody that I have interacted with here… I can really only add my support to Pain’s comments on this

To me it is taking advantage of someone who really doen't know anything better and is susceptible to being seriously abused by so called doms for their own perverted purposes.

This especially seems a comment without true understanding… Yes I had a very bad time of it in childhood and I guess that is what shaped my harder and darker edge… many of the interests I have include blood/knife play, force play and bouts of violence. I have probably run the gauntlet of negative emotions as I tried to suppress or come to terms with these dark desires inside me… it led me down a path that I may not have returned from

So, with respect, rather than avoiding us, try taking on a sub that has been hurt in her past...perhaps you too can provide that individual with the life enhancing experience that will set her free

I do sometimes wonder that perhaps if I didn’t suffer what I suffered, then would this part of me never have surfaced or even existed, would I be better off for it…
I doubt I could answer… besides for the first time in a long time I feel at peace with myself, and I think that’s a pretty good place to be.... and there is one person i can thank for this xx


Dark x

[Rhabbi]

I do sometimes wonder that perhaps if I didn’t suffer what I suffered, then would this part of me never have surfaced or even existed, would I be better off for it…
I doubt I could answer… besides for the first time in a long time I feel at peace with myself, and I think that’s a pretty good place to be


Dark x

Good for you Dark. Abuse is bad, but we can make the choice about how we deal with it.

[anonymouse]

I do sometimes wonder that perhaps if I didn’t suffer what I suffered, then would this part of me never have surfaced or even existed, would I be better off for it…
I doubt I could answer…

"None of us can change the past nor invent the future. The only time over which we have any true control at all is the present." I think it was Tolstoy who originally said that and it's something I've found to be reassuring at times of crisis.

The original poster made a sweeping generalization quite likely with the intention of trolling for an argument. My parents were very old fashioned and strict when I was growing up, but I'd never say they were at any time ever 'abusive'. I'd be surprised if there weren't a lot of others of my generation who were raised with similar strictness - I know a lot of my friends growing up were. I hated being spanked as a child so I'd have to say that my submission in adult life has little (if anything) to do with those childhood experiences. I personally don't see or feel any connection between the two.

It's also been my experience that submissives from abusive backgrounds are in the minority. Most I know are well-adjusted, educated professionals and their influence on those who have come into the scene with emotional problems is always profoundly positive. Sure, predators exist, but they too are in the minority - at least they are in real life.

For those here who might have had bad experiences in the past, my heart goes out to you. I always hope my positive view of the scene and life in general is contagious.

[Warbaby1943]

It's also been my experience that submissives from abusive backgrounds are in the minority.

Maybe a poll is in order if there is enough interest for anyone to start one.

It sould incorporate Dom/mes too so that subs are not singled out. Easy way to end the debate without an argument in my opinion.

[~hellish one~]

jiggy was not banned for this thread. he was temporarily banned for 10 days for flaming in a different thread.

[Phantome]

Rather than dismissing formerly abused subs, you could take them on and lovingly teach them how a good dom is supposed to act, as well as help them gain confidence in themselves so that they can't be taken advantage of again....
-Phan

[MajesticFae]

Why are we just speaking of subs here? Aren't there any Dom/mes out there that were abused in their childhood. I'm sure they've grown into fine upstanding people and maybe dominating helped set them free.

I think it's wrong to not take on a sub because they came from an abusive background. I don't think jiggy was referring to childhood abuse, but abuse from other Dom/mes. I think Dom/mes need to watch over their subs very carefully because we put a lot of trust into them to not abuse us. Dom/mes shouldn't take wrongful advantage of their subs, but unfortunately some do and the subs get put off of this lifestyle, but some come back. I believe that those that do come back find better relationships and become better people because of it.

I personally have never been abused, childhood or in this lifestyle so I can't really speak on the matter. I've suffered emotional abuse at the hands of vanilla partners, but nothing physical.

jiggy said that if we no someone is being abused, it's our responsibility to help them. A lot of times, those that are being abused will fight you tooth and nail because they think they aren't. A lot of times people get blinded and don't realise what is really happening. That's happened to me before in one or two of my relationships. You don't realise you're being abused and the one day it clicks and it's still difficult to get out.

I agree with what ceegee said about the Dominant's Creed. Dom's shouldn't not take on a sub because of her/his back ground. No matter his/her back ground the Dom (if a good and true Dom) should be able to help that submissive become a better person and enlighten them to the way our lifestyle really works.

[Widget]

First of all Jiggy was not banned due to this thread and there is no reason for this thread to be locked at all.. that out of the way now..

I have something I wanted to say to this thread. I came from an abusive background. Did it make me want to be in a BDSM lifestyle? Not likely I had thoughts from a very young age about being tied up, being a slave girl, being the woman in charge of the harem and so on. Those thoughts were there long before the abuse happened. Did it leave my self esteem in shreds? You bet. Did it make it so I could not tell what being treated with respect was? So I had no idea to expect better? Absolutely.

It took me many years to learn that I was worthy of respect and to never accept less. I had always chosen controlling abusive men to have in my life in part I now know because I was seeking a dominate but not understanding the difference.

Can a Dom come from an abusive background? Of course they can I have heard stories from some people that make me want to cry for their pain. It seems that most subs who are really still victims of their pasts and Dom's who are really abusers find each other. People who have been abused or are abusers are not relegated to a vanilla relationship and a great deal of people from everywhere have had things happen in their past. I think the real question is not the type of lifestyle people have but have they found healing.

It was so hard for me to get there and to realize self worth, and I still have days where I back slide. I think in the end its not the background as much as the lessons and the going forward. An abused victim who is not healed will seek abuse in any type of interactions and an abuser will dish it out. Its that simple. When they learn to break the cycle healing begins and that is what any relationship that is healthy needs for the people in it to work.

I once got so fed up with posts about can a sub say no, is this abuse sort of questions that I posted this thread which I think applies here as well.

http://www.bdsmlibrary.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5448

I actually do not blame anyone for not wanting to take on baggage where the other person does not have a good healthy ego, its not good for any growth or makes it harder to really know the other person. I do think the blanket statement made in the thread starter is based on a desire to start a debate more than a valid point of view. After all how many people start into dating or a relationship of any kind talking about their painful past? I do not and the last time I really dumped it all out, the good the ugly and the bad is likely the last time I need to talk about it. I see no point going forward no matter who I am involved with in bringing it up again. I only would talk about it to another person seeking relief of their pain, maybe to let them know they are not alone no matter how ugly the story is. Or maybe just to say hey, I AM NOT A VICTIM and letting bad things happen. I had some bad things come my way and I AM STRONGER THAN I KNEW in the end. That is in itself a statement that I had always tried to say about my past and only now BELIEVE it.

[TeddyBearGaySlave]

Really interesting topic.
It is about half an decade ago now that I was beaten nearly to death by 5 teenagers who saw how I looked at a hairy, big man in the change room of a public swimming bath, and maybe a little cock growth too.
They followed me after I left the swimming bath and forced me to get naked and then they have beaten me up very hardly. Was half a year in hospital after that with many brocken bones, damaged testicles. lung and spleen and internal bleedings and so on. They also pissed on me and stuff. If a afraid neighboor who have seen it had not called the police they would have done the "bite in the road kerb and I kick you in the nick" thing seen in American History X, but they came just in time.
I thanked God for letting that man see that and I hated God for not making that man curagous enough for stepping out and help me, but not anymore. Maybe it would have gotten worse if he stepped out as one of the guys had a knife with him. I guess the man would not have been able to stop them, he was about 60 years old I guess. Anyway, thats beside the point.

For a year after that I was very sad all the time and I just was not able to understand why they hated me so much and why they nearly ended my life. Then came the time where I was depressed because I couldnt sleep anymore, and when I had sexuel feelings I felt dirty and guilty. I becamse very shy, aggressiv and had not many friends and not a single real friend. I also had suicide plans but then my brother committed suicide. He did that because of our really damaged family, which he could not live with and because our mother died on cancer 2 months ago. (Yeah, it was a pretty fucked up time).
I became really really sad for a long time and hated me brother what he has done (Now I think "wow, how could you be soo selfish". But then I saw a fantasy movie and one dialogue really threw me away, that changed my life:

""I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.""
"So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world,besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring, in which case you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought."

I cried for hours and days after that. I was very sad and very happy at the same time, I cried about what I lost and about what I got. The good things and the bad. I cried because I knew that without my brothers suicide I would just be a shadow of what I now was. My emotions were to complex to write down in a foreign language, I am sorry. From that minute my live changed completely.
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us." I decided to live MY live no matter what other things had burdened on me. I will look like how I want to look like, I will do what I want to do. Since then I have made really good friends, experienced the most wonderfullest thing imaginable, living and enjoying my life with no regret when looking back. I have no feelings of hate or anger when thinking about my brother or those teenagers or about anyone else in my life. I also have never dreamt about that beating since watching the film but two times. Before that was almost every night the only dream I could remember off.

Lol I just realized that this post has nothing to do with the thread so back to topic: I can NOT remember any desire to be dommed or what you would like to call it. But since then I want it badly and what is important: I feel NO remorse AT ALL about that. That has become a part of me which I am gladly willing to accept and I am glad that I was a long time in a relationship with a man who was glad and happy to do just THAT to me, someone who fulfills his desire by fulfilling mine. Could there be a greater relationsheep between to people?
There is very important difference in getting abused by foreign people (not your decision) and getting abused by your dom (your own decision.)

Well thats, it pew. I cannot believe that I just wrote that down. Nobody knows all about that, nobody. But I guess I will feel good after I press that "Submit Reply" button, *sigh*

[Aussiegirl1]

TeddyBear,

Thank you for sharing you story with us all. I am sure it wasn't easy but it seems like you have come out the other side a stronger and happier person. That is great!

[Flaming_Redhead]

[QUOTE=jiggy;337555]

From my extensive experience as a Dom I have come across so many subs that had been abused , physically, sexually earlier in their life. It saddens me to think that such a very high proportion of subs or wanna be subs come from an abused background.

I don't know what constitutes a "high proportion" of subs who have been abused, either physically or sexually. If you know of a study that differentiates between subs and vanilla women, I'd like to see it. According to RAINN (Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network) statistics, every 2 1/2 minutes, somewhere in America, someone is sexually assaulted. One in six American women are victims of sexual assault, and one in 33 men. In 2004-2005, there were an average annual 200,780 victims of rape, attempted rape or sexual assault. About 44% of rape victims are under age 18, and 80% are under age 30.

And people wonder why BDSM gets a bad name. It saddens me more when other so called doms take advantage of this and make subs believe this should is a "normal" way of life that they have to accept- not knowing anything else.

BDSM gets a bad name because people are afraid of anything different which they don't understand. There are predators in every walk of life, from churches to bars, and everywhere in between. The lifestyle is not immune to people posing as one thing when they are really something very different.

I personally have a rule of NEVER taking on a sub that has had an abusive background. To me it is taking advantage of someone who really doen't know anything better and is susceptible to being seriously abused by so called doms for their own perverted purposes. If you know of a sub in such a horrible situation - It is YOUR responsibilty help this sub.

All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. Why don't you take your own advice? If you know of a sub who has an abusive background, teach her what it means to be respected. Help her break the cycle by building up her self-esteem so that she will learn to demand respect from others rather than tolerate abuse.

I come from an abusive background. I am able to be a productive member of society. I have done a lot in spite of my past. However, I do have issues. I have struggled to come to terms with what I want/need in regards to BDSM. I came to realize that what I want/need is vastly different from what I'd experienced previously in that I expect to be loved and respected by the man I submit myself to, not treated like a dog or even worse. I didn't try to hide the fact that I have issues from VoodooMan. I wanted him to know that he was dealing with damaged goods from the beginning. He has taken me on in spite of the daunting problems he will face regarding earning my trust, getting me to open up completely to him, seeing through my defenses, etc. He is making slow progress, but it's progress nonetheless. I might eventually be normal again....NAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH *ggls* Normal people worry me!

*wanders off singing* "They say I'm crazy, but I have a good time...."

[Rhabbi]

The thing is, even in a vanilla relationship there is a high incidence of people who have been abused.

Every two and a half minutes, somewhere in America, someone is sexually assaulted.
One in six American women are victims of sexual assault, and one in 33 men.
In 2004-2005, there were an average annual 200,780 victims of rape, attempted rape or sexual assault.
About 44% of rape victims are under age 18, and 80% are under age 30.
Since 1993, rape/sexual assault has fallen by over 69%.

Those stats come from Rape, Abuse, and Incest National Network.
(http://www.rainn.org/statistics/inde...feef69a68bdaa4)

My personal guess is that those statistics are on the low side. Either that or I have the dubious fortune of finding people who have been abused and adopting them as friends.

All that said, I will not run from someone, or exclude tham from my life, because of something that happened to them that was beyond their control. My responsiblity, as a human being, is to help these people in any way i can. even if it is only by letting them know that not everyone judges them based on their past.

[Tasker]

A Dom can come from a past where they have been abused / witnessed abuse. I know. I grew up watching physical and mental abuse and had it applied to me as well.
In my case the efffects were to make me fight against who I am for most of my life. It took a long time for me to mentaly separate abuse and consentual play and finaly accept what I am, a Sadist.

To this date I can not use any form of impact as a punishment, instead I use other means that are just as effective in getting the lesson home. ( and to those that reckoned I was a wannabe wimp for that. Bite Me )
My pet (and my children) is the most precious thing in my world. To witness her growth as she blossomed in her submission has been the greatest priveledge I have ever had. To abuse that, to betray that total trust would be a crime that i certainly couldnt live with.

Just my 2 bobs worth
Paul

[Sir_Russell]

The latest stats I read said that about 40 percent of the women in the US had been sexually abused at some point in their life, through in just good old fashioned abuse and who would you have left?

As a Dom when I take on a sub/slave my job is to help her grow in many ways all of them positive and teach her to honor and respect our relationship, not out of fear but out of genuine love and trust.

jiggy has brought this up under another user-name and then bragged about MAKING his sub do things that I found to be disgusting.

[TomOfSweden]

The problem with Jiggy's first post is that it seem's to assume that being into BDSM is something wrong. Perverted sexuality if you will.

Here's a theory. Maybe submitting or dominating are at the very core of what human sexuality is all about. Our culture and huge brains allow us to cover this up. People are often so uptight about their sexuality that they don't even admit to themselves what they like.

Emotional crises, no matter what shape it may take can help us question ourselves. Question the very core of our being. Shock us out of a sleep, and help us shed the bullshit and false goals in life. At least it explains why so many in the scene has had various traumas.

Once a person has entered the rabbit hole there's no going back. I've never heard of people who stop being into BDSM. They might stop being part of the scene, but the fantasies never stop.

[TeddyBearGaySlave]

Aussiegirl1
Thank you very much. I am reliefed now to get some kind of positive response to my post.

*hugs*

[Aussiegirl1]

Aussiegirl1
Thank you very much. I am reliefed now to get some kind of positive response to my post.

*hugs*

My pleasure!

I think sometimes a post gets lost among all the other posts, but when I read yours I just knew I had to let you know I had read it and appreciated your honesty.

[pixie_dust]

IMHO, whether a Dom/sub or vanilla, if you have been in any type of abusive relationship, it has to be faced and dealt with in order to heal and grow.

To make someone who has something so painful in their past feel shunned, avoided, and/or ashamed because of their history, can only contribute to the pain that has been already endured. To me, that would be one of the ultimate forms of abuse.

P.S. TeddyBear... Thank you so much for sharing your story. You are truly an amazing person. To edure such a horrific act and to become a better person from it shows great strength. I hope others are able to find hope in your words. *big hugs*