The Church orders Wives to Submit to their Husbands

[steelish]

"Submission is powerful, beautiful, hopeful and courageous"

That only applies to those who love and wish to submit. Someone who is "ordered" to do it and it goes against their very nature would be far from powerful, beautiful, hopeful or courageous. What they would be is bitter, resentful, angry and looking for a way out.

[MMI]

That only applies to those who love and wish to submit. Someone who is "ordered" to do it and it goes against their very nature would be far from powerful, beautiful, hopeful or courageous. What they would be is bitter, resentful, angry and looking for a way out.

Aren't you confusing submission with subjection?

Mark Oden was asking wives to choose to submit to their husbands, whom they presumably love.

[Thorne]

Aren't you confusing submission with subjection?

Mark Oden was asking wives to choose to submit to their husbands, whom they presumably love.

I can't find a copy of the leaflet which was apparently handed out, but here:

From the article:
Vicar Angus MacLeay issued a leaflet to churchgoers, saying: “Wives are to submit to their husbands in everything in recognition of the fact that husbands are head of the family as Christ is head of the church. This is the way God has ordered their relationships with each other and Christian marriage cannot function well without it.”

That doesn't sound to me like someone asking or suggesting anything. That sounds like him telling them to submit, because that's what God wants.

And from some of the comments I've read, here and elsewhere, he's done a fairly good job of alienating quite a few of his flock. It sounds to me like these Christian women don't want to submit.

[steelish]

Aren't you confusing submission with subjection?

Mark Oden was asking wives to choose to submit to their husbands, whom they presumably love.

You can love someone and not want to "submit" to them. If forced to, or placed within circumstances that create the necessity for someone to be under another's authority or control would then be subjection. If he is asking them to submit, then it would be submission, should they choose to do so - but if they were not naturally submissive to begin with it is highly unlikely that the marriage will be a happy one while the wife is "trying" to be submissive.

Submission (even if it is willingly attempted at the request of another) can turn into subjection if one of the parties involved ends up unhappy with the arrangement.